TOWN OF DUCK

MUNICIPAL PROPERTY MASTER PLAN STUDY COMMITTEE

RECONVENED MEETING

October 18, 2004

 

The Municipal Property Master Plan Study Committee for the Town of Duck reconvened at the Duck Municipal Offices at 2:00 p.m. on Monday, October 18, 2004.

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:  Chairman Paul Keller, Bob Fitchett, Charlie Pratt, Donna Black, Ed Sowinski, Jennifer Gilbreath, Avery Harrison, Town Manager and Town Clerk Christopher Layton and VHB Consultant Chris Dewitt.

 

MEMBERS ABSENT: None.

 

OTHERS PRESENT:  Deputy Town Clerk Lori Kopec.

 

The meeting was called to order at 2:00 p.m.

 

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

 

Chairman Keller asked the Committee to review the minutes of the September 13, 2004 meeting for changes.  Donna Black moved to approve the minutes as presented.  Ed Sowinski seconded the motion.

 

Motion approved 6-0.

 

ISSUES RELATED TO MASTER PLAN DEVELOPMENT

 

Overview of October 9^th Public Meeting

 

Chairman Keller stated the public meeting had approximately 103 people in attendance.  He felt that it was very well received and that those that attended were overall happy with what the Committee has accomplished so far.  Bob Fitchett stated he did not hear many negative comments at the meeting.  Charlie Pratt stated that with the consultants with VHB, everyone was able to stand near a concept and speak to the public and answer their questions. 

 

Chairman Keller passed out a Park Committee Schedule to the Committee members.  He stated it would be discussed later in the meeting.  He asked the Committee members to review the schedule and think about what configuration of the property would be given to the Town Council in December.  He reviewed the important dates with the Committee – November 8, 2004; the Committee’s next meeting, December 1, 2004; the two final concepts would be presented to Council and January 15, 2005; the date of the Committee’s final meeting.

 

Chris Dewitt felt the meeting went very well.  He stated that 40 responses to the new questionnaire were turned in at the meeting and more have been mailed in.  He asked the Committee for their perception of the meeting.  Bob Fitchett felt that this meeting went better than the first one.  Charlie Pratt felt the meeting was very well organized.  Ed Sowinski felt the meeting was very positive overall, but that an individual brought up cost and he felt it was a valid point. 

 

Chairman Keller reminded the Committee that the plan is a five year plan.  He stated cost would be brought up at some point, but not necessarily at the Council’s December meeting.  He stated the elements will need to be prioritized as well.  Chris Dewitt stated that once the Committee narrows down the concepts to only two, planning level cost estimates will be added to the elements as well as a phasing matrix to follow.

 

Town Manager Layton stated the Town will be beginning a process of a six-year CIP process.  He cautioned the Committee not to sell the grant funds idea to the public.  He stated that grant funds are not always available.  Chairman Keller reminded the Committee that the grant fund process is left up to the Council.

 

Donna Black stated that even though she was not able to attend the meeting, she had received comments from an individual who is against the Town Hall, but felt the concepts showed an unobtrusive building.  Charlie Pratt stated he had received similar comments. Chairman Keller stated he felt that there is a greater feeling of acceptance of the Town Hall, but that it is still opposed.

 

Chris Dewitt reviewed the follow-up questionnaire responses with the Committee.

 

Ed Sowinski asked if the comments to the new questionnaire were similar to previous comments.  Chris Dewitt stated they are, but that there is now additional support for a Town Hall.  He stated that the public is appreciative of the Committee’s work.  Town Manager Layton stated that people are very complimentary.

 

Ed Sowinski stated he received a comment from an individual asking what would be included in the Town Hall.  He stated he had told the individual that the Town Hall would meet the administrative aspects of the Town.  Chairman Keller stated that the building is a 5,000 square foot building and that it has not been decided what would be included. 

 

Review and Discussion of Draft Concept Plans

 

Chairman Keller asked Jennifer Gilbreath and Avery Harrison to give their comments on the playground for the property.  Jennifer Gilbreath stated she likes to take her children to The Woods Road Park in Kitty Hawk.  She stated the park has a high chain-link fence around it with a gate, making it easy for a parent to monitor their children as well as monitor who comes in and out of the park.  She felt that keeping the playground near NC 12 with a parking lot that can be shared with the rest of the park would make good sense, if a tall chain-link fence can be justified.  Avery Harrison agreed with Ms. Gilbreath’s comments. 

 

Charlie Pratt stated he had received a comment from an individual that hoped the picnic area would be close to the playground.  Town Manager Layton reminded the Committee to keep things at the macro level when discussing options for the park.  Chris Dewitt stated the Committee should come up with the uses for the park and where they should be located.

 

Chris Dewitt went on to review Park Option 1 and Park Option 2 with the Committee. 

 

The Committee reviewed the options for the amphitheater.  Chairman Keller suggested presenting Council with two options for an amphitheater.  Town Manager Layton suggested only showing one option for an amphitheater. 

 

Ed Sowinski asked if the Committee will have to have specific items ready for Council’s review in December.  Chairman Keller felt that the Committee wouldn’t need to.  He reminded Mr. Sowinski and the Committee that the plan is a five year plan.

 

Chris Dewitt asked the Committee which option for the amphitheater they would choose.  Chairman Keller suggested the Committee vote on it. 

 

Chairman Keller asked for those in favor of having the amphitheater from Park Option 2 as the amphitheater of choice. 

 

Voting was 6-0 with Bob Fitchett abstaining from voting.

 

Chairman Keller asked for those in favor of having the playground from Park Option 2 as the playground of choice.

 

Voting was 7-0 in favor of Park Option 2.

 

Chris Dewitt reviewed parking options with the Committee.   Town Manager Layton reminded the Committee of ADA requirements.  Donna Black asked if the parking space allotment was the same for both options.  Chris Dewitt stated that Park Option 2 has 56 spaces while Park Option 1 only has 33 spaces.    Bob Fitchett stated he liked Park Option 1 for parking because it would be closer to the amphitheater.  Ed Sowinski asked what the parking capacity was for the two options.  Mr. Dewitt repeated that Park Option 1 has 33 spaces and Park Option 2 has 56 spaces.  Mr. Sowinski pointed out that there would be more parking if Park Option 2 were chosen.  Chairman Keller pointed out that Park Option 1 has two entrances to the park.  Mr. Dewitt suggested a small access drive and turnaround for Park Option 1.  He suggested keeping the 56 spaces for Park Option 2 and adding an access drive for temporary parking. 

 

Town Manager Layton asked if the picnic area had been determined.  He suggested that a turnaround near the picnic area would be a good idea.

 

Chris Dewitt reviewed the picnic area with the Committee.  Bob Fitchett asked if the picnic area is near the sound, could some benches be put near the playground area.  Chairman Keller felt it was a good idea.  Mr. Dewitt asked the Committee if their consensus was that they wanted the parking from Park Option 2 with an access drive and turnaround from Town Hall Option 2, as well as the playground from Park Option 2.  Chairman Keller asked if there were any questions.  Ed Sowinski asked Mr. Dewitt to summarize their choices.  Mr. Dewitt repeated their choices.   Mr. Sowinski asked if a flagpole could be put up at the circular driveway.  Chairman Keller repeated to the Committee that they should be thinking in macro terms right now.  Chairman Keller asked Mr. Dewitt to give the new parking space figure to the Committee.  Mr. Dewitt stated there would be 56 formal parking spaces with temporary parallel parking on the access drive.  Bob Fitchett asked if during non-peak times, people could park in the temporary parking to have a picnic.   Town Manager Layton stated the access would be for emergency vehicles and should be considered as a drop off point only.

 

Chairman Keller asked Chris Dewitt to review the description of the turnaround and access road.  Mr. Dewitt stated it would be a two-way access road with the circular drive being one-way with the parking being temporary only.

 

Chairman Keller asked for those in favor of the new picnic and parking configuration.

 

Voting was 7-0 in favor of the new picnic and parking configuration discussed.

 

Charlie Pratt asked if Park Option 2 was the favored option of the Committee.   Town Manager Layton stated he was correct.  Ed Sowinski asked if the paths differed in the options.  Chris Dewitt stated they are basically the same.

 

Chris Dewitt reviewed Town Hall Option 1 and Town Hall Option 2 with the Committee.  The Committee members went on to discuss their opinions of the two options. 

 

Chairman Keller asked for those in favor of Town Hall Option 1 as the option of choice.

 

Voting was 2-5 with Donna Black, Bob Fitchett, Jennifer Gilbreath, Ed Sowinski and Charlie Pratt dissenting.

 

Chairman Keller asked for those in favor of Town Hall Option 2 as the option of choice.

 

Voting was 5-2 with Chairman Keller and Jennifer Gilbreath dissenting.

 

Jennifer Gilbreath excused herself from the meeting.  The time was 3:15 p.m.

 

It was consensus of the Committee to remove the proposed parking behind Herron’s Restaurant due to it being the restaurant’s septic drain field.

 

The Committee went on to discuss the options for the Rodgers house. 

 

Darwin “Dock” Drewyer was recognized to speak.  Mr. Drewyer stated he had originally intended to purchase the Rodgers house for an ice cream store before Food Lion purchased the property.  He questioned the qualifications of Dawn Frost of VHB in her assumptions on the state of the Rodgers house; specifically the asbestos, lead, mold and the rotting exterior.  He suggested that tests be performed to determine if the house has these issues and if they can be remedied before the decision is made on whether or not the house is taken down. 

 

Chris Dewitt stated that Ms. Frost is an architectural historian and not a structural engineer.  He stated she made the assumptions based on the age of the house.  He stated her conclusions were based on the cost of restoring the house as opposed to taking it down, compared with its lack of architectural uniqueness and distinction.  Town Manager Layton stated that the State Department of Cultural Resources sent a letter to the Town concluding that the house has no historical significance.

 

Mr. Drewyer stated he was unsure previously about the comments made about the house.  He stated that there are many expert builders in the area that could work on the house.  He stated that people equate Duck with the Rodgers house.

 

Chairman Keller asked the Committee if they wished to (1) restore the house as it looks today; (2) restore the house to the 1935 configuration; (3) replicate the house as it looks today; (4) replicate the house to the 1935 configuration; (5) demolish the house and save the bricks and certain timbers for a future structure; or (6) demolish the house completely. 

 

Town Manager Layton pointed out that if the house will be restored, it will need to be done early in the project.  He stated that whatever happens to the house needs to be done early on rather than later.

 

Charlie Pratt asked for clarification on the options for the Rodgers house.  Chairman Keller reviewed the options.  Mr. Pratt asked when the house was modified.  Chairman Keller stated he wasn’t sure.  Ed Sowinski stated there are ways to find out about the house from photographs of the house as well as contacting the older citizens of Duck.

 

Chairman Keller asked the Committee how they felt about replicating the house.  Town Manager Layton asked if the house is replicated, what would the Committee be replicating.  Chairman Keller stated it would be either the old house or the new house.  Town Manager Layton stated that replicating is fine but may not serve any real purpose.   Charlie Pratt suggested using it as a visitor’s center or restrooms.  Town Manager Layton stated that the Committee should focus on replicating the house for a reason rather than just replicating it.

 

Ed Sowinski stated that if the house is to be saved, he felt it should be rebuilt as it originally looked in 1935 and not with the addition added on either in 1945 or 1955.  He stated he agreed with Mr. Pratt on the potential uses of the house. 

 

Darwin Drewyer stated he was not concerned with the restoration of the house as no one seems to remember how the house looked in 1935.  He stated he would be interested in seeing the house have restrooms and a visitor’s center.  He stated his main reason for coming to the meeting was to voice to the Committee that a professional builder should go in and determine if the house should be saved.

 

Donna Black stated she has no problem with replicating the house and taking it back to the 1935 house.  She felt that the present structure should be torn down with the option of replicating it.

 

Town Manager Layton asked if restrooms have been discussed. Chairman Keller stated that it should be discussed.  Town Manager Layton clarified his question by suggesting that the Committee decide where the restrooms should be located.  Ed Sowinski suggested incorporating the restrooms into a rebuilt Rodgers house.

 

Bob Fitchett thought the consensus of past meetings of the Committee was that the Rodgers house would be rebuilt with restrooms.  For the amphitheater, temporary port o johns would be brought in.  He stated he didn’t envision seeing two separate full time restrooms on the property.  Chairman Keller agreed.  Mr. Fitchett suggested that the restrooms for the entire park be located at the Rodgers house.  He also suggested a small interpretative area in the house as well.

 

Charlie Pratt thought the Rodgers house was from an emotional period with the history relative to the time it was built.  He stated he would like to see the Rodgers house replicated to include the addition with a possible interpretive sign in the house that states when the house had the addition built.  He stated he felt strongly about replicating the house to include the addition.  He didn’t feel the second story of the house could be utilized.  Chairman Keller stated the original house had the second floor and if the house is replicated, the second floor would have to be added.  Town Manager Layton brought up the ADA requirements if the second floor would be accessible to the public.  Mr. Pratt asked if the house is replicated, would only the exterior would be replicated.  He stated that if only the exterior is replicated, there would be no need for access to the second floor for the public.  Chairman Keller stated the house would have to have the same presence relative to the cemetery.

 

Ed Sowinski stated that the house does not have to be a tourist visitor center.  Town Manager Layton suggested the second floor be used for storage for the restrooms. 

 

Avery Harrison stated she was in favor of replicating the house as it was in 1935.  Bob Fitchett agreed.  Charlie Pratt asked when the addition was added to the house.  Ed Sowinski asked if the house was totally built in 1935 and not added on.  Town Manager Layton pointed out that Mr. Sowinski had stated earlier that the house was added on in either 1945 or 1955.  He stated it was his impression that the house was fundamentally constructed as it looks today.  Chairman Keller disagreed.  He stated that if a person goes inside the house, the difference could be observed.  Mr. Sowinski suggested researching the house with some older citizens of Duck to see when the house was added on.

 

Ed Sowinski stated that if the house is to be torn down and rebuilt, photographs would need to be taken as well as measurements.  Chairman Keller asked if that has been done by VHB.  Town Manager Layton stated an architect would have to be hired to do the measurements.

 

Donna Black asked Chairman Keller what his thoughts were about the house.  Chairman Keller felt it would be cheaper to replicate the house than rebuild it.  Charlie Pratt asked Chairman Keller what his position was on replicating the house versus tearing it down.  Chairman Keller stated the house would need to be torn down to replicate it.  He stated he would vote for tearing down the house, saving the desired pieces and have the house replicated.  Town Manager Layton reminded the Committee that in their recommendation to the Council, they would have to state what the uses of the house would be.

 

Ed Sowinski felt that the options before the Committee were to either tear the house down completely or to replicate it for future use.  Donna Black asked if the Committee could decide when the house would be affected in the listing of priorities for the park.  Chris Dewitt stated she was correct.  She wondered if the Rodgers house was not available by time the park is open, if port o johns be sufficient. Mr. Dewitt stated that a park in his neighborhood has permanent port o johns that are unobtrusive.  He suggested doing that on a temporary basis.  Town Manager Layton stated that if kayakers are allowed in the park, port o johns would be needed for them.

 

Town Manager Layton reminded the Committee that the cost of the replication of the Rodgers house, which will include getting an engineer and an architect to come in, will need to be taken into consideration early on in the project.  Chairman Keller asked Chris Dewitt to have the time differences assessed as to replicating the house early on or later in the phasing project.

 

Chairman Keller reviewed the Committee’s feelings on the Rodgers house.  He thought they wanted to show a full or partial house on the final concept.  Chairman Keller asked those in favor of removing the house but maintaining the elements to be saved and showing the house as replicated to raise their hands.  Ed Sowinski asked if the alternative would be to just tear the house down.  Chairman Keller agreed.

 

Voting was 7-0 in favor of the Rodgers house being torn down, having the essential elements saved and replicating the house as it looked in 1935.

 

Chris Dewitt reviewed that the Rodgers house would be called a visitors center/interpretation on the final concept including a Town Hall.  On the final concept without a Town Hall, the Rodgers house will be referred to as a visitors center/interpretation/restrooms.  Ed Sowinski asked if the Rodgers house will appear on both options.  Mr. Dewitt stated he was correct.

 

Town Manager Layton asked Chris Dewitt if he had enough information to show all of the uses for the property.  Chris Dewitt stated there would be two sketches with a plan of the uses.  He asked the Committee to decide on the material for the path from the parking lot to the kayak launch.  Ed Sowinski suggested semi-pervious bricks.  Town Manager Layton stated that if the path is done in pea gravel alone, it would be hard for someone in a wheelchair to navigate the path.  He asked what other materials could be used.  Mr. Dewitt suggested stone dust, which would work well for those in wheelchairs and those with strollers.  Avery Harrison asked if a kayak could be dragged on the stone dust.  Mr. Dewitt stated that kayaks could be dragged on the dust and suggested that the kayaks be dragged in the grass along the trails.  Town Manager Layton stated that stone dust is a good product to use.

 

Chairman Keller stated that the elements have not been prioritized yet.  Town Manager Layton asked if the Committee could get the new concepts and estimates of cost by the November meeting.  Chris Dewitt said he could provide the Committee with both.  Town Manager Layton stated the priorities could be set then.  Chris Dewitt suggested a phasing development matrix in addition to the new concepts and costs.  Chairman Keller stated that he would like that.

 

Chairman Keller asked if there were any grant recommendations the Committee could take to Council.  Town Manager Layton stated that grant recommendations are not an option at this point.  Chairman Keller asked Town Manager Layton if he had any suggestions for pursuing grants.  Town Manager Layton stated he did not see any point of pursuing grants at this point but maybe later in time.

 

Ed Sowinski suggested that the stormwater plan should be shown on the final concepts.  Chairman Keller stated they would be shown.    He asked Chris Dewitt to have two stormwater options shown.

 

OTHER ISSUES

 

Chairman Keller asked for any other thoughts before adjourning. 

 

Town Manager Layton reminded the Committee that after the concepts are finally chosen, there would be a need for choosing various aspects for the park.  He stated he would like the Committee to be a part of that.  Avery Harrison agreed.  Charlie Pratt stated he would love to continue as a Committee member. Bob Fitchett stated he wasn’t sure he would like to continue.

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

There being no further discussion, Chairman Keller asked for a motion to adjourn.  Charlie Pratt moved to adjourn.  Avery Harrison seconded the motion.

 

Motion carried 6-0.

 

The time was 4:15 p.m.