TOWN OF DUCK

MUNICIPAL PROPERTY MASTER PLAN STUDY COMMITTEE

REGULAR MEETING

August 23, 2004

 

The Municipal Property Master Plan Study Committee for the Town of Duck convened at the Duck Municipal Offices at 10:00 a.m. on Monday, August 23, 2004.

 

MEMBERS PRESENT:  Chairman Paul Keller, Avery Harrison, Bob Fitchett, Jennifer Gilbreath,  Charlie Pratt, Donna Black, Ed Sowinski, Town Manager and Town Clerk Christopher Layton and VHB Consultant Chris Dewitt.

 

MEMBERS ABSENT: None.

 

OTHERS PRESENT:  Deputy Town Clerk Lori Kopec.

 

The meeting was called to order at 10:00 a.m.

 

APPROVAL OF MINUTES

 

Chairman Keller asked the Committee to review the minutes of the July 12, 2004 meeting for changes.  Charlie Pratt moved to approve the minutes as presented.  Bob Fitchett seconded the motion.

 

Motion approved 7-0.

 

Chairman Keller asked the Committee to review the minutes of the July 20, 2004 design work session for changes.  Ed Sowinski moved to approve the minutes as presented.  Donna Black seconded the motion.

 

Motion approved 7-0.

 

ISSUES RELATED TO MASTER PLAN DEVELOPMENT

 

Report on Presentation to Town Council

 

Chairman Keller stated he had made a presentation to the Town Council at their August meeting.  He stated the Needs Assessment/Vision Statement was very well received with only one minor change requested by Mayor Pro Tempore Allan Beres.  He stated that Councilor Monica Thibodeau had asked if the December deadline would be met.  Chairman Keller stated he had told her that every effort would be made.

 

Review and Discussion of Draft Concept Plans

 

Chairman Keller suggested that Chris Dewitt make a general presentation to the Committee and each Committee member discuss each concept.  He stated he would like the Committee to agree on any changes to the concepts.

 

Chris Dewitt was recognized to speak.  Mr. Dewitt stated that VHB, Inc. is celebrating their 25^th year in business.  He presented the Committee with a mailer tube full of chocolates.  The Committee thanked him for the gift and congratulated him and his company on their anniversary.

 

Chris Dewitt went on to review the draft concepts with the Committee.

 

Chairman Keller asked if questions from the Committee could be asked as Mr. Dewitt reviews each concept.  Mr. Dewitt stated that would be fine.

 

Donna Black asked how many parking spaces would be used for Park Option 1.  Chris Dewitt stated there would be approximately 40 parking spaces. Ms. Black asked if there would be a cost difference in where the boardwalk is put.  Mr. Dewitt stated there will be depending on where the boardwalk is put.  If it’s put on upland, it would be cheaper than putting it over the wetlands.  Ms. Black asked if it would make sense to have restrooms on both sides of the park.  Mr. Dewitt stated it’s a question of convenience.

 

Chairman Keller pointed out that Park Option 1 does not have a picnic area. Mr. Dewitt stated it has a Town green where picnic facilities could be put in. 

 

Ed Sowinski stated a second restroom could be put in where the old shed was standing.  He felt it would be unobtrusive in that area.

 

Chris Dewitt stated that on future versions of the concepts, a seating area would be shown on the sound.

 

Ed Sowinski asked if the boardwalk that ends near Nags Head Hammocks was an intentional access from the store parking lot.  Mr. Dewitt stated it wasn’t and suggested having the path follow the property line down to NC 12.

 

Chairman Keller asked the Committee if they were in agreement on changing the path near Nags Head Hammocks.  It was consensus of the Committee to change the path.

 

Charlie Pratt wondered what type of septic system would be put in near the Rodgers house that would be large enough.  Chairman Keller asked that all comments in regard to the Rodgers house be held off till later in the meeting.

 

Town Manager Layton reminded the Committee to take the storm water issues into consideration when discussing the concepts.

 

Bob Fitchett asked if the Committee was in favor of 2 separate restrooms.  Charlie Pratt stated he is in favor of 2 restrooms.  Town Manager Layton stated that Port O Johns could be brought in to deal with large volumes of people.    Mr. Fitchett asked if it was consensus of the Committee to have 2 restrooms on the property.  Donna Black suggested having one centrally located on the park.

 

Jennifer Gilbreath asked if the Rodgers house will be a visitor center or interpretative center.  She stated it if is, then restrooms would be needed there.  She stated that most of the Town parks on the Outer Banks have Port O Johns on site and felt it was acceptable.  Chairman Keller stated that mostly bikers and hikers would use the Port O Johns on a daily basis.  Bob Fitchett felt that Port O Johns would be a tremendous cost for the Town.  Charlie Pratt stated that restrooms were the second most requested amenity on the questionnaires.

 

Town Manager Layton excused himself from the meeting.  The time was 10:30 a.m.

 

Jennifer Gilbreath asked if the circular driveways on the concepts were for convenience.  Chris Dewitt stated they were.  Donna Black pointed out that the green space on the property is constantly filled with cars parked for Herron’s Restaurant.  She stated that the Town would lose that parking area to people eating at the restaurant.

 

Jennifer Gilbreath asked if the Town puts up signs threatening to tow vehicles in a no parking area are effective.  Ms. Black stated it probably helps, but that the parking in that area has been used for so long.  Chairman Keller suggested having parking places for the Herron’s employees only.

 

Chairman Keller asked how much of the prime forest vegetation will the amphitheater use.  Chris Dewitt stated he would seek not to take any of the prime forest vegetation.  He stated that the underbrush would be cleared, but the trees would be kept. 

 

Chairman Keller asked if there would be two overlooks.  Chris Dewitt stated there should only be one.

 

Donna Black stated she likes the boardwalk along the water, but likes the path coming down near the hammock store and heading into the trees.

 

Chairman Keller asked if the kayak launching area interferes with the public access to the sound or would there be enough room for both.  Chris Dewitt stated it would be enough room.

 

Ed Sowinski stated he liked the bridge over the sound.  Avery Harrison agreed. 

 

Chairman Keller asked if there is an easy path for bikers to follow.  Chris Dewitt stated it would be easy for bikers to follow the path.

 

Chris Dewitt reviewed Park Option 2 with the Committee.

 

Donna Black asked if electric will be able to be run for the amphitheater.  Chris Dewitt stated it will be possible.

 

Chairman Keller asked what the seating capacity of the amphitheater would be.  Chris Dewitt stated he wasn’t sure and would look into it.

 

Bob Fitchett asked the Committee what area for the playground would be better.  Avery Harrison stated she would like to see it by the Rodgers house.  Jennifer Gilbreath agreed. 

 

Donna Black asked if the amphitheater would be more costly in one area as opposed to another.  Chris Dewitt stated the amphitheater in Park Option 2 would be more costly.  He stated that with Park Option 2, the attendees at the amphitheater also have a view of the sound.  Chairman Keller pointed out that the amphitheater in Park Option 2 is further from the road and would have less noise from traffic.

 

Bob Fitchett stated that if the parking next to Herron’s Restaurant is eliminated, it would make the Town look like bad neighbors.  He stated he would hate to see the Town cut out the additional parking for Herron’s to have it used for green space.  Chairman Keller stated that the Town would probably buy them out one day.  Donna Black stated she didn’t want to go to Council and tell them that the green area will be left as parking for Herron’s Restaurant.  She stated that she understands that they use it now, but that the Town only has so much space that can be utilized on the property.  Mr. Fitchett felt that if the parking is taken away, Herron’s could come back at the Town.  He preferred that the Town stay friendly with them.

 

Ed Sowinski suggested an option for parking behind Herron’s Restaurant with no additional parking on the green area.  Chris Dewitt stated that additional parking behind the restaurant is shown in all of the options.

 

Chairman Keller asked if cost will be included in the final 2 options.  Chris Dewitt stated that he was correct.  Chairman Keller asked what the feasibility would be for covered rescue areas at the picnic area.  Avery Harrison suggested a covered picnic area.  Chris Dewitt suggested showing a covered picnic area on some of the options.  The Committee agreed.

 

Charlie Pratt asked if the boardwalk will be moved closer to the shoreline.  Chris Dewitt asked the Committee if they would like it shown on all of the options.  It was consensus of the Committee to show the boardwalk close to the shoreline on all of the options.  Jennifer Gilbreath asked if the bridge would be included in each option.  It was consensus of the Committee to have the bridge shown in each option if the boardwalk is to be close to the shoreline.

 

Chris Dewitt reviewed Town Hall Option 1 and 2 with the Committee.

 

Ed Sowinski asked if a traffic engineer had studied ingress and egress of the property.  Chairman Keller suggested having one driveway as an ingress and one driveway as an egress.  Mr. Sowinski suggested a U-shaped driveway from one side to the other.  Chris Dewitt stated if that was done, wetlands would be crossed, which would be difficult and expensive.

 

Jennifer Gilbreath asked where the water pools on the property.  Chris Dewitt stated that VHB is working on different potential storm water options at this time. Chairman Keller asked if one option would be a dry pond.  Mr. Dewitt stated that at this point, they would all be dry ponds.

 

Donna Black stated she liked the green area on Town Hall Option 2.  Ed Sowinski agreed.

 

Chairman Keller asked if the 5 concepts would be presented at the second public input session in October.  Chris Dewitt stated he was correct.  He stated the Opportunities and Constraints Option would remain unchanged and Park Option 1 and 2 would be shown with the minimal changes. 

 

Ed Sowinski asked if there would be multiple options for the boardwalk shown. Chris Dewitt stated he thought the consensus of the Committee was that the boardwalk would be shown along the sound in every option.

 

Donna Black asked if the 2 Town Hall Options would be shown or would it be limited to just 1.  Chris Dewitt stated that 1 option would be shown.

 

Jennifer Gilbreath asked if Town Hall Option 2’s selling point is the green space.  She stated she is not sold on that option.  She stated she liked Town Hall Option 1 because Option 2 destroys some of the quaintness as well as the possibility of a visitor center at the Rodgers house with the traffic coming through there.  She stated she likes the idea of tucking the Town Hall away from sight but it’s still going to be a big building with a lot of pavement.  She asked how much more vegetation would have be cleared for Town Hall Option 2 versus Option 1.  She felt that more vegetation would be disturbed with Option 2.

 

Ed Sowinski felt it all came down to how important it is to have a Town green.  Chris Dewitt suggested showing a smaller Town green.  Jennifer Gilbreath stated that access to the property would be harder in Town Hall Option 2 because the ingress would be on a physical curve on the road.

 

Chairman Keller asked the Committee if they had an objection to showing both Town Hall Options at the public input session.  It was consensus of the Committee to show both options.

 

Chairman Keller asked if a projected count could be done on the number of cars coming and going from the Town.  Chris Dewitt stated he would research it.

 

Donna Black stated that another competitor for the consultant job had shown some interesting options of municipal buildings and park settings. Chris Dewitt asked if VHB could provide some sample photos for the public input session.  The Committee felt it would be a good idea.

 

Ed Sowinski stated that having 2 options for the Town Hall could elevate the temperature of the public about the adversity to a Town hall.  Bob Fitchett agreed.  He stated that he thought the Committee was only going to show one Town Hall option to the Council.  Chairman Keller stated the options would be shown to the public and that Council would not be shown the options until November or December.  Mr. Fitchett asked if by then it would be only 1 option.  Chairman Keller stated he was correct.  He stated there would be 1 option with a Town Hall and 1 without.

 

Jennifer Gilbreath asked if the Committee decided on Town Hall Option 1, could it be more of a Duck visitor center or would people be kept at the Rodgers house.  Donna Black stated it would make sense to have one structure do everything.  Chairman Keller stated that he would hate to send visitors to the Visitor’s Bureau.  Chris Dewitt stated that if there is not a Town Hall, a visitor’s interpretative center should be at the Rodgers house.  Chairman Keller suggested having the restrooms at the Town Hall.

 

Donna Black stated the Town Hall building could be more than just a municipal building.  Chris Dewitt stated if a Town Hall was chosen, there could be just a sign where the Rodgers house is with some interpretation.  Jennifer Gilbreath stated she would like to leave the possibilities for the Rodgers house open for future planning. 

 

Donna Black felt the gazebo should not be on the path itself.  Chris Dewitt suggested moving the gazebo to another location.

 

Discussion of Presentation to Town Council

 

Chairman Keller asked if any part of the Rodgers house should be saved.  Ed Sowinski stated parts should be saved if it’s possible and within reason. 

 

Charlie Pratt asked what the pieces would be used for.  Chairman Keller stated the pieces could be used in a library.  Ed Sowinski stated it could be used in the Town Hall building.  Chairman Keller stated that once they are gone, they are lost forever.

 

Chairman Keller stated a recommendation could be made to Council if the cost is too high to save pieces from the house.  Chris Dewitt stated that saving the few timbers and posts will not be expensive.  Donna Black asked if the bricks from the chimney should be saved.  Chairman Keller stated that the bricks were not found to have any historical significance.  Jennifer Gilbreath felt the bricks would be good to use somewhere on the property.  Bob Fitchett asked if the bricks should be saved.  Chris Dewitt felt they should. 

 

Chairman Keller asked if the Committee should recommend saving some timbers and bricks to the Council.  Charlie Pratt felt the Committee should.  Chairman Keller asked how the timbers would be identified.  Chris Dewitt stated that a member of the VHB team has identified the timbers that should be saved. 

 

Donna Black asked how hard it would be to take the timbers and the bricks.  Chris Dewitt stated the bricks would be harder to take but the timbers should be easier, provided none of them are holding the house up.  He stated the easiest way is to decide to raze the house and then flag the timbers until the contractor comes out.

 

Charlie Pratt asked if any part of the house will be saved.  Ed Sowinski asked about the potential of reconstructing the Rodgers house.  Chairman Keller stated the house would not be reconstructed but could be replicated.  Mr. Pratt asked if the house could be replicated at the present elevation.  Mr. Sowinski stated it boils down to insurance.

 

Donna Black asked if the recommendation to Council would be to preserve some timbers and posts, some bricks and then raze it.  Chairman Keller stated that was a reasonable recommendation.  Ed Sowinski asked about the added labor of replicating it.  Chairman Keller stated there is still time on that issue.  Mr. Sowinski stated that if a recommendation will be made to replicate the house, then photographs should be taken of the house before it’s razed.  Chris Dewitt stated it would be done.  He suggested making the recommendation with the idea of interpretative signage along with a display of pieces of the house.  Mr. Sowinski suggested a modified replication which could involve the foundation with an interpretative sign.

 

Charlie Pratt felt the Rodgers house could be an emotional issue for the public.  Mr. Sowinski agreed.  Donna Black asked the Committee if they were in agreement that the house should be replicated and not restored.  The Committee agreed. 

 

Chairman Keller stated a decision does not have to be made for the next Council meeting regarding the house.  He asked Chris Dewitt to take photographs of the house for replication purposes, identify the timbers that need to be saved, identify a storage place on the property for the bricks, and discuss a possible security problem with the bricks.  He asked Mr. Dewitt to present several options for the replication to the Committee.  Avery Harrison asked if the foundation would be left intact if the house is razed.  Chairman Keller stated it would be for the time being.  He stated he would have Town Manager Layton give the approval to get started on saving the timbers.

 

Discussion of Second Public Meeting

 

Chairman Keller stated that at their September meeting, the public input meeting would be scheduled.

 

Charlie Pratt asked if there would be a presentation ready for the public meeting.  Donna Black stated that information should be ready by then.  Chairman Keller stated that documentation on saving the timbers should be available for the meeting.

 

Chairman Keller stated that if Chris Dewitt couldn’t have the information for the September meeting, he would have another session, possibly on the telephone, to agree on the presentation.

 

Chairman Keller asked the Committee if they felt the pier should be longer.  Chris Dewitt stated the pier is more than likely long enough to meet the needs of the Town.  He stated the proposed pier is 200 feet long.  Ed Sowinski felt it was excessive.

 

Bob Fitchett thanked Chris Dewitt for all his hard work.

 

OTHER ISSUES

 

Chairman Keller asked what other options could be added to the concepts.  Ed Sowinski stated the overall concept is in tune with what the citizens want.  Chairman Keller asked if aerial photographs should be available.  Bob Fitchett asked how they would be different from the concepts.  Mr. Sowinski stated that some people can sense the elevation with a topographical map.  Chris Dewitt stated the elevations are on the concepts and the aerial photograph.

 

Donna Black felt the parking will be an interesting subject.  Avery Harrison felt that people will want to see more green space.  Chairman Keller stated that as time goes by, there could be pressure to add more parking. Chris Dewitt stated he will add the number of parking spaces on the concepts.

 

Charlie Pratt stated he did not like how the town green won’t be visible to traffic on NC 12 on Town Hall Option 1.  He suggested pushing the Town Hall back towards the sound. Chris Dewitt stated it could be an option.  Mr. Pratt stated he would like the property to look more like a park.

 

Donna Black stated she likes Town Hall Option 1.  Jennifer Gilbreath agreed.  She felt it wasn’t right to hide the Town Hall itself.  Chairman Keller stated that Town Hall Option 1 reduces the vehicles traveling in the park. 

 

Jennifer Gilbreath asked if the Council can defend having a Town Hall on the property.  Donna Black stated that the Committee has to provide the option for a Town Hall. 

 

Chairman Keller asked for any other thoughts before adjourning. 

 

A gentleman in the audience was recognized to speak.  He suggested moving the building over, putting a buffer between the Town Hall building and Herron’s Restaurant, and making the parking bigger behind the buildings. Chris Dewitt stated it could be done.  Jennifer Gilbreath and Donna Black agreed it may look better by moving the building as it would create more green space for the park.  Charlie Pratt stated this new concept appealed to him.  Chris Dewitt stated he would research it to see if it could be done.

 

Chris Dewitt stated the Committee needs to decide to what extent a formal presentation versus a display should be done.  Donna Black felt the public will need guidance.  Ed Sowinski agreed.  Mr. Dewitt asked if a formal question and answer session should be done.  Ms. Black stated she liked the formal question and answer session.  The Committee agreed.

 

Charlie Pratt asked if all of the options would be presented at the public input meeting.  Chris Dewitt stated he had thought that the Committee agreed to have all of the options presented.  He stated that based on the public input, the concepts would then be narrowed down.

 

Charlie Pratt asked how long the public input meeting would be.  Chris Dewitt stated the presentation is approximately 10 minutes, people will then walk around for about 30 minutes and then the question and answer session would finish up the meeting.  He stated the whole thing should last about an hour and a half.  Donna Black asked if a date has been confirmed.  Chairman Keller stated the date is up to the Council. 

 

Jennifer Gilbreath asked if the public has seen the Vision Statement.  Chris Dewitt stated it is available on the website.   Ms. Gilbreath asked if there would be a means to get the word out about the Vision Statement to the general public.  Donna Black suggested it could be downloaded from the website or else copies could be available at the Town office.  Chairman Keller stated he would speak to Town Manager Layton about it.

 

Charlie Pratt asked if the next meeting will be on September 13, 2004.  Chairman Keller stated he was correct.  He asked if there would be anything to be presented to the Council.  Chairman Keller stated the concepts would be provided at the Council’s September mid month meeting.  Mr. Pratt asked when the Council’s mid month meeting would be.  Chris Dewitt stated it would be held on Wednesday, September 15, 2004.  Ed Sowinski commented that it is only 2 days in between the two meetings.  Mr. Pratt asked if there are any issues that need to be resolved before the Town Council meeting.  Chairman Keller stated he wanted the Committee’s ideas on what should be included in the cover letter.  He stated that if Council has changes to the concepts, the Committee will have to get together shortly after.  Chairman Keller stated he would write a cover letter and send it to each Committee member for their comments.

 

ADJOURNMENT

 

There being no further discussion, Chairman Keller asked for a motion to adjourn.  Jennifer Gilbreath moved to adjourn the meeting.  Avery Harrison seconded the motion.

 

Motion carried 7-0.

 

The time was 12:00 p.m.