TOWN OF DUCK
TOWN COUNCIL
RETREAT
January 16 & 17, 2008
The Town Council for the Town of Duck convened at the Sanderling Inn at 9:00 a.m. on Wednesday, January 16, 2008.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Neil Morrison; Mayor Pro Tempore Monica Thibodeau; Councilor Nancy Caviness; Councilor Bart Smith; and Councilor Dave Wessel.
OTHERS PRESENT: Town Manager Christopher J. Layton, Director of Community Development Andy Garman; Fire Chief Donna Black; Deputy Fire Chief William Walker, Jr.; Police Chief Phillip Ferguson; Chris Dewitt of Vanasse Hangen & Brustlin, Inc.; Tim Lee of Tidewater Fibre Recycling; Barry Moss of Tymoff and Moss Architects; Public Relations Coordinator Kathy McCullough-Testa and Town Clerk Lori Kopec.
ABSENT: Town Attorney Donald I. McRee, Jr.
Mayor Morrison called the meeting to order at 9:17 a.m. He welcomed all to the Retreat and introduced Council and staff to the audience. He stated that Council planned to conduct the Retreat informally. He asked the audience that if they wished to speak to raise their hand to be recognized.
RECYCLING
Off Season Recycling Schedule
Town Manager Christopher Layton was recognized to speak. Town Manager Layton stated that the discussion was a carry-over from the January 2, 2008 meeting where Council discussed that the Town of Southern Shores was moving to an off season recycling schedule from October 1 through May 1, with recycling picked up the first and third Monday of each month. He stated that Southern Shores would see a direct savings of approximately $23,000 per year. He stated that if the Town were to follow suit, it would see a savings of $16,000 per year. He stated that the discussion was left with whether Council wanted to move to an off season schedule, when it would start and when the off season schedule would take effect.
Tim Lee of Tidewater Fibre Recycling was recognized to speak. Mr. Lee went on to give a short background to Council and the audience on how the Town of Southern Shores decided to go to an off season schedule and how Tidewater wanted to give Duck the opportunity to move to that type of schedule as well.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought Council was having a good discussion. She thought the comments from the January meeting were that the Town of Southern Shores’ schedule was wrong for what Duck was looking for. She stated asked what the proposed timeframe was for Southern Shores. Tim Lee stated he had proposed from the end of September through the end of May. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thanked Town Manager Layton for the charts provided in the Council packets. She pointed out that May 1 through October 1 was a very busy time of year with a lot of participation. She stated that if the Town was to move to an off season schedule, she would want to narrow the window. She thought if the Town went to an every other week schedule, there would be participation, but there could be an issue with regard to rental homes that are empty in the off season. She stated that the Town does have an ordinance regarding rolling the carts in within twenty-four (24) hours of them being out. Town Manager Layton clarified the administrative policy for carts to Council and the audience and noted that the Town does receive complaints but that it was usually a complaint about an entire street and not just one house. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated she had brought the roll out cart issue up at the recent DCBA meeting.
Councilor Caviness stated she agreed with Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau’s comments. She didn’t think the dates would sync with the traveling public. She wasn’t sure how it could work. She thought carts being out in the street would be an issue. She reiterated that she didn’t think the dates would work for Duck and that it could be trouble with the carts being left out at the curb. She thought the weeks with the least impact on the community were after New Year’s and before Easter, but still thought it would be a problem with carts being full from owners coming in to get their homes ready for the summer season.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if Councilor Caviness was suggesting that if owners leave their carts out, that they would not be all recyclables. Councilor Caviness thought if the Town went to every other week, the carts could be filled with recyclables but thought they would have trash in them as well.
Mayor Morrison asked Councilor Caviness if she wished to leave the recycling schedule the way it presently is. Councilor Caviness stated that if she had to pick, she would leave it the way it was because of the nuisance issues.
Councilor Smith stated he was in favor of the off season schedule. He noted that in the time period of November through April 2006, the total number of units equaled the total number of units collected for the month of July. He stated that he understood Councilor Caviness’ concerns but thought trying it for a season would outweigh the potential concerns as it will save money and fuel. He suggested that with the money saved by going to off season recycling, it could be used to revive the Trash Fest that was held many years ago. He stated that he liked having the off season run from November through April. He added that there could be an issue with a full cart but pointed out that it would not be hard for a homeowner to obtain an additional container.
Claiborne Yarbrough of 139 West Tuckahoe Drive was recognized to speak. Ms. Yarbrough stated she had obtained a second cart and thought it was great having a second one. Mayor Morrison asked if there was a cost for the second cart. Ms. Yarbrough stated there wasn’t. Town Manager Layton stated that the Town is charged for the extra carts. Mayor Morrison asked what the cost was. Town Manager Layton stated it was $1.60 for an extra cart. He stated that the Town pays $4.64 per cart with the $1.60 for the extra.
Councilor Smith stated that there could be disadvantages to going to an off season schedule, but Council did not know what it would be yet. He stated that if any issues arise, they could be addressed then. He thought the benefits outweighed the negativity. He thought the Town should try it and see how it goes. Mayor Morrison asked Councilor Smith if he would favor a six (6) month period. Councilor Smith stated he would. Town Manager Layton pointed out that the off season schedule would be the first and third Monday of each month. Mayor Morrison added that some months would skip weeks.
Councilor Wessel stated he liked the idea of trying the off season schedule to see how it goes. He stated that saving money was always a good idea and using those savings for a potential popular event would be great. He stated that he had originally questioned how nonresident owners and property managers would feel but after speaking to some people, there didn’t seem to be an issue. He stated he would want Monday pick ups after the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays. Tim Lee stated that the original idea was to have pick ups every other week and the Southern Shores Council determined that the first and third Mondays were better for them. He stated that calendars could be printed up that highlight the pick up dates in the off season. Councilor Wessel thought the pick up time through Christmas and New Year’s could be an issue if there wasn’t a pick up. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that there is a lot of check-ins for Christmas.
Councilor Smith asked how hard it would be to schedule an additional pick up the Monday after Thanksgiving and Christmas. Tim Lee stated it wouldn’t be a problem but wasn’t sure of the cost. Councilor Smith asked if Southern Shores mentioned anything about it. Mr. Lee stated they did not discuss it.
Town Manager Layton stated that if Council wanted to explore the possibilities, he could get a cost estimate and revised contract from Tidewater Fibre.
Mayor Morrison suggested that Council discuss the issue at their February 6, 2008 meeting and vote on it. Town Manager Layton stated he would discuss contract language with Mr. Lee and go from there. He asked if the off season schedule would start in 2009. Councilor Wessel thought it should be done now. Mayor Morrison didn’t think it should wait. Councilor Smith agreed. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought the word should be put out and agreed it should start now.
Commercial Recycling
Town Manager Layton stated the issue was another one from the January 2, 2008 meeting. He stated there was discussion regarding the new ABC law that went into effect and those that hold ABC licenses would be required to recycle. He went on to give a short overview on commercial recycling to Council and the audience.
Councilor Caviness stated she has been approached numerous times about the need to deal with the amount of cardboard and how it creates trouble in the commercial dumpsters.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought the Town should help direct the commercial property owners with a solution. She suggested the Town having a dumpster at the Town Park for commercial recycling of cardboard. Town Manager Layton stated that the Town spends approximately $300,000 per year for commercial trash pick up. He stated that when it comes to recycling, he would be reluctant to extend the service, especially since there was nothing preventing any business from arranging for a private commercial recycling pick up. He stated that the Town could explore in assisting in the effort. He thought space to hold the recycling containers would be an issue at commercial properties.
Councilor Smith stated he did not agree with Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau’s suggestion regarding putting a dumpster at the Town Park. He stated it did not need to be anywhere near the park. Fire Chief Donna Black was recognized to speak. Fire Chief Black cautioned Council about having a dumpster at the park. She stated that the park would become a dumping ground.
Tim Lee reviewed the ABC container mandate with Council and the audience. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that Mr. Lee had stated that a dumpster that a commercial entity was using could be replaced with a dumpster that would be used exclusively for recycling. Mr. Lee stated she was correct. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if the Town would pay for the dumpster. Mr. Lee stated it could be the Town or the commercial entity’s responsibility. Town Manager Layton stated it would take time to get things worked out. He stated that if a dumpster was eliminated and replaced with an 8 cubic yard recycling container, it may break even.
Councilor Caviness stated that she was not suggesting the Town assume the cost for commercial recycling. She thought the appropriate role was to figure out a way of facilitating the businesses’ ability to get into the system. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau agreed. Councilor Caviness thought there was a disconnect in the business community as to how they are supposed to go about doing things. She stated there should be a way for the Town to help the businesses, but wasn’t suggesting the Town assume the cost for the recycling.
Mayor Morrison asked if the new ABC recycling law went into effect January 1, 2008. Tim Lee stated he was correct. Mayor Morrison asked what the businesses were doing presently. Town Manager Layton stated he wasn’t sure. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau felt the businesses had a year to comply. Town Manager Layton stated that the businesses could obtain an extension. He noted that the ABC people were responsible for enforcing the new law, however, they haven’t figured out how they will. He stated that when the Town receives calls from commercial businesses regarding recycling, staff gives out Tidewater Fibre’s telephone number.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that Tidewater Fibre does not do dumpster pick ups and has Outer Banks Hauling as their subcontractor for those pick ups. Tim Lee stated that Tidewater Fibre does not provide dumpster service but Outer Banks Hauling does. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that businesses are referred to Outer Banks Hauling. Mr. Lee stated she was correct.
Mayor Morrison asked Town Manager Layton to prepare a recommendation for Council’s February 6, 2008 meeting. Town Manager Layton suggested having more time to study it and look at the options. Mayor Morrison stated that was fine.
Christmas Tree Recycling
Councilor Smith gave a short overview on the benefits of Christmas tree recycling to Council and the audience. He suggested the Town start a Christmas tree recycling program, possibly contracting with a group that would grind up the trees into mulch and then give away the mulch. He also suggested using some of the mulch in the park. He stated that the trees can be piled up to be used as a ground cover for small animals and birds. He stated it could be a Town event in January where people can bring their Christmas trees to the park and have them recycled. He stated he would like Council to discuss the option of a committee being formed to look into the issue.
Mayor Morrison asked if there was an estimate of how many Christmas trees were in Duck. Councilor Smith stated he did not know. Councilor Caviness thought there would be approximately 200 trees. Councilor Smith agreed. Mayor Morrison pointed out that some people have artificial trees, so the number could be lower.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau pointed out that a lot of tourists come at Christmas time and have live Christmas trees. Councilor Smith agreed. He thought there would be enough trees to make it worth looking into.
Councilor Wessel stated that the Town of Southern Shores has a large pile of trees collected. He stated that he wondered why Duck hadn’t done something. He thought having the Town do something would be good. He thought Councilor Smith and Claiborne Yarbrough should be commended for coming up with the idea.
Claiborne Yarbrough stated that she noticed the playground has pine bark mulch. Town Manager Layton stated it was engineered mulch. Ms. Yarbrough stated that the playground would be a good spot to have actual mulch. She stated that she loved the idea of Duck being a vanguard of ecology practices.
Mayor Morrison stated that without objection he wanted to appoint Councilor Smith to head a committee to carry on with the idea of recycling Christmas trees. He appointed Councilor Smith and Claiborne Yarbrough to the committee and suggested they choose a third person to serve with them and report back to Council on their progress. Councilor Smith thanked Mayor Morrison.
Mayor Morrison called for a ten (10) minute break. The time was 10:24 a.m.
Mayor Morrison reconvened the meeting.
VANASSE HANGEN BRUSTLIN CONSULTANT PROJECTS
Update on NC 12/Tuckahoe Stormwater Project
Chris Dewitt of Vanasse, Hangen, & Brustlin, Inc. was recognized to speak. Mr. Dewitt gave a short briefing on the NC 12/Tuckahoe stormwater project to Council and the audience.
Chris Dewitt stated that initially it was hoped that the road improvement would be built in the spring of 2008 but given the level of complexity of the construction project, it was not a realistic goal. He thought the construction would start in the fall of 2008 because of the traffic situation. He stated that when the Master Plan was developed a few years ago, it was estimated that the construction would cost around $700,000. He stated that based on that, the Town and NCDOT did some lobbying and received allocated funding for the design and construction. He stated that since that initial estimate, construction costs have escalated to the extent that the project may cost close to one million dollars.
Town Manager Layton added that the estimate was recent and was communicated to NCDOT. He stated that the Town had not had a chance to speak with them in detail. He stated it will probably require a second round of lobbying for funding. He thought that would be the only delay in the project. He stated that NCDOT were concerned with the cost estimates but not overly concerned. He stated that they did authorize VHB and the Town to proceed. He stated they would get together to come up with a strategy. He stated that there was the potential for the Town to make a request to assist, but it would more than likely be avoided.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that the estimate went from $750,000 to one million dollars. Town Manager Layton stated she was correct. He added that it wasn’t surprising.
Councilor Smith asked if the original $750,000 was earmarked regardless of the delay in construction. Town Manager Layton stated it was and that there was only $500,000 right now. Councilor Smith asked what has been invested in the project to date. Town Manager Layton stated that $174,000 had been estimated for the engineering. He stated that the Town has invested $84,000 for the temporary pumping, including rent on the parcel property. He stated that the project needs to be done but the key was getting it funded as designed as opposed to having short cuts made in the design that may reduce the effectiveness. Councilor Smith asked if the current design’s projected effectiveness considered the changes that could be made inside the Tuckahoe neighborhood. Chris Dewitt stated it did. Councilor Smith clarified it was based on those changes. Mr. Dewitt stated he was correct.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if staff had been satisfied with the effectiveness of the temporary pumping. Town Manager Layton stated he was very pleased with the effectiveness of it. Chris Dewitt added that the size of the pump necessary to keep up with strong storms would be huge in comparison to what is currently in place. Town Manager Layton explained that the cost for preparing the dry pond and pump cost the Town $70,000. He stated that to put a pump in that would clear water from the road in minutes would more than likely triple the cost. He stated that the Town would offer the current pump system to Tuckahoe at a reduced cost. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought it would be reused at the Sound Sea Village subdivision. Town Manager Layton stated that it would be sold to Tuckahoe if they were interested.
Councilor Caviness asked what the stretch of road for the improvement would be. Town Manager Layton stated it would run from Bias Lane to Sea Hawk.
Update on Sound Side Boardwalk Project
Chris Dewitt gave a short overview on the sound side boardwalk project to Council and the audience. He stated that they have met with most of the sound side property owners, gone over the preliminary study, discussed with them the priorities of traversing or connecting to their properties, and received positive responses from the business owners. He stated that they have come up with refined concepts for the boardwalk. He went on to review the concepts with Council and the audience. He stated that the idea would be to finish the study, obtain outside funding and be poised to immediately go into permitting and design once the funding is available.
Town Manager Layton stated that there has been a mystery in Town regarding a public sound/boat access. He stated that it was assumed it was located in an inlet next to the water tower, however it wasn’t. He stated that Dare County has an easement for boats, but the area is filled in. He stated that the area next to the water tower is owned by a private owner.
Ron Forlano of 1378 Duck Road was recognized to speak. Mr. Forlano noted that on the north side of the water tower, there was a ten (10) feet of property that was deeded to the Saltaire subdivision. He stated that they did not know what they wanted to do with the property. He stated that if there was a need, he was sure the people of the Saltaire subdivision would be agreeable to work something out for boardwalk access. He stated the subdivision had no need for the property.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau noted that the grade changed between Wings, Osprey Ridge and Ocean Atlantic Rentals. She asked if a standard walkway was envisioned with a slope or if it would have stairs. Chris Dewitt stated it would have to be sloped for ADA access. He stated that the there was a considerable grade change and thought that the specific alignment may have to change somewhat to achieve the grade. Town Manager Layton added that the owners of Ocean Atlantic Rentals were very enthusiastic as the grade would come up from the south end of the park boardwalk and hook in to their existing ramp. He stated that they were willing to share the cost in extending their deck to help feed into the boardwalk. Chris Dewitt stated that the Town could look at ramping down to Wings instead of using the existing porch at Osprey, so the sloping would start earlier. Town Manager Layton noted that there existed a nice grove of trees at Osprey that the Town would want to preserve. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that by doing some creative ramping, the boardwalk would not connect to Osprey. Chris Dewitt stated it would connect, but would be a question of whether the Town would utilize the existing or adjacent deck.
Claiborne Yarbrough asked what the latest plan would be to get people from the trail at the south end of Duck across the road. Director of Community Development Andy Garman was recognized to speak. Director Garman stated that he met with a representative of NCDOT and it was suggested that a designated crosswalk could be put in where Aqua-S was proposing one. He stated that the discussion included relocating the diagonal crosswalk. Councilor Caviness asked if the crosswalk at the corner of Scarborough Lane would be eliminated. Town Manager Layton stated that since there have not been any recommendations from NCDOT yet, they don’t know if it would.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if the boardwalk was taken into consideration when talking to NCDOT about the crosswalks. Town Manager Layton stated it was part of the preliminary discussions. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought the church parking lot could be a logical place to cross over. Town Manager Layton pointed out that he didn’t have that information when they first met with NCDOT. Director Garman didn’t think NCDOT had taken the boardwalk into consideration when they completed their analysis for the crosswalk.
Mayor Morrison thanked Chris Dewitt for his presentations.
Town Hall Concepts
Chris Dewitt stated that the Town had been looking at the former Herron’s Restaurant property in terms of the potential of having a Town Hall built there. He stated that Barry Moss from Tymoff and Moss Architects was present and had delivered a few presentations in terms of preliminary concepts. He stated that Mr. Moss delivered the concepts to Council and the general public in 2007. He stated that they have taken the results of the meetings and refined the plans. He stated that Mr. Moss would discuss the results at this meeting.
Barry Moss of Tymoff and Moss Architects was recognized to speak. Mr. Moss gave a short recap on the steps from the 2007 Council Retreat. He went on to review the new design concepts with Council and the audience.
Mayor Morrison clarified that the side of the building without a porch was the north side. Barry Moss stated he was correct. Mayor Morrison asked how tall the building was. Mr. Moss stated that one area was approximately four (4) feet off the ground with thirteen (13) feet to the top floor. He stated that in total there would be thirty-five (35) feet without the roof peak. Councilor Caviness thought the building was thirty-eight (38) feet high. Mr. Moss pointed out that it was a commercial building and would need extra space for the mechanicals. He stated that if the building was to be three (3) stories, it would be over thirty-five (35) feet with the roof peak.
Sam Taylor of 111 Skimmer Way was recognized to speak. Mr. Taylor thought it may be better to have the building closer to the walkway on the side of the road and have the parking behind the building. He thought it would be more aesthetically pleasing. Barry Moss stated it was a good point. He stated that the building could be moved forward with the parking in the rear.
Joe Blakaitis of 115 Sandpiper Cove was recognized to speak. Mr. Blakaitis asked where the proposed police department would be located in the building. Barry Moss stated that the police department was not proposed to be housed in the building. Chris Dewitt pointed out that the rationale for having the building be more towards the back was for the views of the sound as well as having meeting space. Mr. Blakaitis clarified that parking was proposed to be under the building. Mr. Moss stated he was correct. Mr. Blakaitis asked why the building concept changed from last year’s concept. Mr. Moss stated that grade was the main reason. Town Manager Layton stated that a portion of the building would be in the flood zone and would have to be elevated. Mr. Blakaitis stated that the concept from last year could have been raised. He noted that last year’s concept was much nicer. Mr. Moss stated he did not get that impression from people last year.
Lynne Alterman of 100 Ocean Crest Way was recognized to speak. Ms. Alterman asked how high the first level of the building would be. Barry Moss stated it was approximately twelve (12) feet above the street, but would be three to four (3- 4) feet at the rear of the building. Ms. Alterman thought the stairways were very tall and steep. Mr. Moss stated it was good point. He stated that they could do some grading to make the stairways shorter. Ms. Alterman suggested breaking the stairways into two (2) instead of one set.
John Wander of 119 Sandcastle Court was recognized to speak. Mr. Wander asked if there would be parking under the building. Barry Moss stated there would.
Ron Forlano clarified that the building would be higher than thirty-five (35) feet. Barry Moss wondered what the thirty-five (35) feet would be to – the E line or the peak. He thought it would be an average of twelve (12) feet per story. Mr. Forlano pointed out that residential homes in Duck are three (3) stories high and are right at thirty-five (35) feet. Mr. Moss pointed out that residential home heights are to the peak and that residential was different than commercial because of the mechanical and electrical needs. Lynne Alterman felt it should be looked into.
Councilor Caviness stated that thirty-eight (38) feet was permitted in Residential 2 areas of Duck. Barry Moss asked if that was being measured from the low point or high point of the site. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated they were generally measured from the base of the building. Mr. Moss asked if towers or pergolas were allowed to go above the thirty-five feet height. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated they were in some residential zones.
Lynne Alterman asked what the purpose of the tower was. Barry Moss stated it was to show it was a public building and part of the landscape. He added that it could be access. Ms. Alterman asked what the access would be for. Mr. Moss stated it could be for observation of the sound. Town Manager Layton stated that typically, crow’s nests go to the peak of the roof and are not counted in height. Ron Forlano pointed out that they were considered an architectural feature.
Mayor Morrison asked how tall the building would be if the tower wasn’t counted. Barry Moss stated that the concept showed the building to be over forty (40) feet. He stated that he could get the building close to thirty-eight (38) feet but it would be very tight. Joe Blakaitis noted that the Town recently passed new regulations related to building height.
Sam Taylor pointed out that it was not irrational to recognize that the building was a commercial one and would need higher ceilings. He stated that for the Town to be overly concerned with conforming to an arbitrary thirty-five (35) foot building height was pushing the envelope. He stated that everyone needed to recognize that it was not a beach house but a municipal, community building.
Lynne Alterman agreed with Sam Taylor’s comments. She thought the thirty-five (35) foot rule wasn’t arbitrary but a way to control height. She felt the building would stick out if it was higher than thirty-five (35) feet. Barry Moss stated she had a good point but noted that the building would be the same height as residential buildings in Duck. He stated that in most municipalities, the standard was to measure thirty-five (35) feet to the average height of the roof and not the peak. Director Garman pointed out that the Town measures to the peak.
Sam Taylor pointed out that visually, most houses in Duck would be taller than the one in the concept. Joe Blakaitis stated that most houses will still conform to the height rule. Sam Taylor stated that thirty-five (35) feet was arbitrary. He pointed out that it was a municipal building and served a different purpose than a house would.
Councilor Caviness felt it was important to realize that it was a commercial building with different internal needs that would take up space that a normal residential building wouldn’t. Barry Moss stated the building could be engineered to lower it as much as possible, but pointed out that a standard office building has nine to ten (9 – 10) foot ceilings. He didn’t think Council would want to have ceilings less than ten (10) feet.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that the meeting space that the community would use should not be compromised as far as the ceiling height. Barry Moss suggested lowering the second floor with dormers, but it would lose floor space. He stated that it was originally shown in the first concept last year but no one seemed to like it.
Paul Keller of 125 Wiroans Court was recognized to speak. Mr. Keller asked if there was an architectural format to dictate the height. Barry Moss stated there wasn’t.
John Fricker of 105 Carrol Drive was recognized to speak. Mr. Fricker stated that the building looked like a big box and was architecturally uninspiring and boring. He thought last year’s concept was warmer and more inviting. Barry Moss agreed with Mr. Fricker’s comments.
Sam Taylor asked if the building had to be raised. Town Manager Layton stated that the back of the building would be in a flood zone. He stated it would have to be raised to meet the flood zone requirements. He added that there was a strong desire last year to explore parking under the building, which had been achieved with the new concept. He stated that there was also a strong desire to have something for public views and to provide a way to incorporate it into the structure. Barry Moss stated it was not unusual to ask an architect for changes.
Lynne Alterman asked if there was discussion of having last year’s concept with only part of it being two (2) stories high. Town Manager Layton stated there was discussion about it. Ms. Alterman felt it would be a way to achieve a high ceiling for the meeting space. Barry Moss stated that the downside would be that it would reduce the footprint of the building.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if last year’s concept without the police department was at 9,000 square feet. Barry Moss stated it was. Mayor Morrison asked if there was a picture of last year’s concept. Mr. Moss stated he did not have one with him. He thought it wouldn’t be fair to react that the new concept would have the building too tall or too big as it will be in scale with every other residential building in Duck. He stated that since everyone liked last year’s concept better, he would continue looking at it. Mayor Morrison didn’t think a special height allowance should be made for the building.
Councilor Wessel stated that as far as scale, the building would be one by itself with no other building next to it. He agreed with Mayor Morrison’s comments about the special height allowance. He felt it would set a new height limit for commercial buildings.
Barry Moss stated that Council and the audience wanted him to come up with a concept that complies with the Town’s ordinance. Town Manager Layton pointed out that the Town does have survey data for the property to get into the specifics of where the ground floor could be to meet the height requirement. Mr. Moss stated that he may be able to raise the porch around the building when measuring height. Town Manager Layton clarified that parking under the building would be next to impossible. Mr. Moss stated it would be expensive as there would be excavation and filling of a flood plain. Town Manager Layton stated it was a trade off to consider. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau pointed out that there would have to be parking elsewhere to compensate for the parking under the building. Mr. Moss stated she was correct.
John Fricker asked how many parking spaces were proposed. Barry Moss stated that the maximum amount on the site would be ten (10) under the building and sixteen (16) in the front. He stated that there would be approximately thirty-five (35) spaces in the area behind the playground.
Fire Chief Donna Black stated that a lot of people would have strong opinions about any one area. She stated that the logistics have to be taken into consideration. She asked everyone to keep the logistics in mind when asking Barry Moss to make everything work. She stated that something will have to give somewhere.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated that Barry Moss made a comment about taking the second floor and having dormer windows. She asked staff how they would feel about having offices with dormer windows. She thought it would bring the roofline down on the structure. Barry Moss stated it would. Director Garman asked if they would be shed style dormers. Mr. Moss stated it could be either shed style or regular dormers. He stated that the problem with regular dormers was that it cuts off floor space.
Barry Moss asked if the building height had to meet thirty-five (35) or thirty-eight (38) feet. Town Manager Layton stated it had to be thirty-five (35) feet. Mayor Morrison stated it was for the Village Commercial District. Councilor Caviness stated it was the Conservation-Public Recreation District. Barry Moss asked if it was better to break the building into pieces or have a box. He stated it could be done either way. Paul Keller asked if it could be done both ways. Mr. Moss stated it couldn’t.
Councilor Smith stated he liked the idea of shed dormers and thought the building should be lowered and that it was critical that the Town stay within their own rules with regard to building height. He stated that he envisioned the building fitting into the park atmosphere. He stated that the new concept did not do that. He stated that if it was lowered, it would decrease the stairs but may cause a problem with the access bathrooms being on the first floor; however the concept from last year had the bathrooms on the first floor. He thought by eliminating the parking under the building, it would allow for a wrap around porch as there would be no reason for a drive aisle.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked what the ordinance stated about parking requirements for the building. Director Garman stated it was in the C-PR district. He stated that there was no specific parking standard for a municipal building, but suggested Council consider an ordinance amendment. Town Manager Layton stated that the original thought was to have public parking in the front of the building with staff parking in the rear or under the building.
Barry Moss asked if the police department would be in the new building. Town Manager Layton stated that at the last discussion, the police were removed from being in the new building. John Wander cautioned Council not to worry about the space for the police. Town Manager Layton noted that the building did not include space for the police. Mr. Wander stated that the staff parking spaces could be used for evening meetings. Town Manager Layton agreed.
Sam Taylor reiterated that the Town did not have any rules for a municipal building. He noted that municipal buildings were different from other buildings. He stated that while the Town would be sensitive to the height issue, it needed to be recognized that it will be a municipal building and would be the only one in Town. He stated it would be a shame for everyone to get hung up on six (6) inches of height and not recognize it was a different building. Barry Moss pointed out that there was a general exception provision for municipal buildings in some areas. Mr. Taylor stated he liked the exception provision. He thought it should come before the Board of Adjustment. Mr. Moss stated that the Planning Board could grant an exception for height.
Councilor Caviness thought the sense from all of the discussions was that everyone would agree on less sprawl, even if it meant a three (3) foot taller building. She thought people wanted the smallest footprint possible for a Town Hall. Town Manager Layton stated that no one was ignoring the conditions that staff works in or the need for more space. He thought the bigger concern was that this was a rare opportunity for the Town. He thought the point was that this was the Town’s one chance and that it has done a very good job of having the park developed in a way that reflected very well on Duck as a community. He pointed out that the building will need to reflect that as well. He worried that everyone was getting hung up on things and not focusing on the main goal. He thought direction should be given to Barry as to what he needs to bring back.
Ron Forlano stated that he felt strongly about the height limit. He stated that if the Town wanted to make an exception, he thought an exception should be looked at in the ordinance that the height doesn’t affect municipal buildings. He stated he would be agreeable to looking at that issue. He stated that he was afraid of a high building and thought the Town was setting a precedent. He stated that he would be agreeable to the Planning Board looking at the municipal property as being a separate entity.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated it was good to have something visual. She stated that she wanted parking under the building. She thought the look of the building could be worked with and embellished. She added that the height needed to come down.
Councilor Wessel thought this was what design was about – putting out concepts, getting objectives and obtaining consensus from the community. He thought Barry Moss was doing a great job.
Councilor Smith stated that there were a lot of good ideas heard. He stated that he thought the building was too tall. He agreed that staff needed more space. He didn’t think the final concept was as far away as people thought. He stated he was excited to see the next concept that Barry would bring back.
Mayor Morrison agreed with Councilor Smith’s comments. He felt like Council was promising people that there would not be a huge structure and would stick within the limits of the Town’s ordinances. He thought it would set a bad precedent for the Town to violate its own rules regarding height. He thought the building could be designed to be beautiful and functional within the limits. He didn’t think underground parking was needed as there was enough parking in place presently. He suggested revisiting the concept from 2007 and did not want an unattractive facility with low ceilings. He stated that he looked forward to Barry Moss coming back with another concept. Barry Moss stated it was math game as to what could fit. He stated he was confident that a two (2) story building would work.
Mayor Morrison recessed the meeting for lunch. The time was 12:33 p.m.
Mayor Morrison reconvened the meeting.
Overview/Discussion of Capital Improvements Program
Town Manager Layton gave a short overview of the Capital Improvements Program to Council and the audience. He stated that he was not making any recommendations at this time.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if Town Manager Layton would be going into detail on the individual CIP sheets. Town Manager Layton stated he wasn’t planning on doing it but would answer questions regarding individual sheets. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau noted that the purchase of Engine 11 in the Project Cost had gone up. She asked if it was previously for a different truck. Fire Chief Black stated that it was the cost per truck as well as replacement of the equipment. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau noted that the purchase of Brush 11 was lower. She asked if it was for a different truck. Fire Chief Black stated it was. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked why the change in cost for the renovations to the Public Safety building. Town Manager Layton stated it was due to reality and new players taking a different perspective of it. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau noted that the stormwater improvement cost decreased significantly. She asked if it was due to grant funds. Town Manager Layton stated it was due to Tuckahoe being removed from the calculations due to the State. He added that it will not be the Town’s project but the State’s. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau noted that it looked like 2011 was the target start date for repaving the Duck Trail. She asked why it was moved back a few years. Town Manager Layton stated it was due to it being a high cost project. He thought there was no real need for the repaving yet.
Councilor Caviness asked if a portion of the Duck Trail will be repaved when the Tuckahoe work begins. Town Manager Layton stated it would. Councilor Caviness noted that the Tuckahoe section and the area by the Sound Sea subdivision were both very bad areas of the trail.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if one (1) police vehicle was needed last year instead of two (2) because Town Manager Layton wanted to save money. Town Manager Layton stated she was correct.
Councilor Wessel clarified that construction of the sound side boardwalk was projected to begin in 2010. Town Manager Layton stated he was correct. He added that he was showing it in two (2) phases. Councilor Wessel clarified that the best estimate for the project cost on both phases was approximately a half million dollars a year with $400,000 coming from other sources. Town Manager Layton stated he was correct. Councilor Wessel noted that people have been very complimentary about what has been done to the park so far. Town Manager Layton explained that $468,500 came from grant funds for the current boardwalk.
Overview/Discussion of Budget-Financial Forecast
Town Manager Layton gave a short presentation on the financial forecast to Council and the audience. He reminded Council that his presentation was designed to be used as a tool for future discussions.
Councilor Wessel asked if the per capita was based on a steady population. Town Manager Layton stated he was correct. He added that everything was based on a snapshot of values, people and number of parcels to date. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if the per parcel was an average. Town Manager Layton stated she was correct.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if the five (5) new employees projected in the forecast would be showing up under Administration or Fire. Town Manager Layton stated they would be shown under whichever department they would be assigned to. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that Town Manager Layton was being conservative with regard to the income. Town Manager Layton agreed and added that he was also being realistic.
Mayor Morrison asked if Town Manager Layton did not expect any increases in land transfer tax over the next five (5) years. Town Manager Layton stated it was one of the assumptions.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau clarified that the occupancy tax for the previous year was $747,000. Town Manager Layton stated she was correct. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought it was low but didn’t mind that it was. Town Manager Layton thought 2007 was an anomaly.
Joe Blakaitis asked what the “ingredients” of Shared Revenue were. Town Manager Layton explained they were comprised of occupancy, sales and land transfer taxes. Mr. Blakaitis asked if they would increase. Town Manager Layton stated they would not.
Councilor Caviness asked if Town Manager Layton knew what the impact would be with regard to the efforts of collecting occupancy tax from units that were not rented through rental companies. Town Manager Layton stated he did not.
Gene Schwarz of 103 Quail Way was recognized to speak. Mr. Schwarz asked what the dollar amount under Public Buildings was for in 2010. Town Manager Layton stated it was for the construction of Town Hall. Mr. Schwarz clarified that it was not the actual cost. Town Manager Layton stated it was factored in. Mr. Schwarz pointed out that the total expenditures forecasted for 2010 was not 6.8, but was less. Town Manager Layton agreed and stated that the he had to show it for accounting purposes. Mr. Schwarz felt it should be clear to understand the budget that $2.1 million dollars would not be spent. Town Manager Layton stated his forecast was purposely showing a different way than for budget purposes.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau pointed out that the Town was ahead in Occupancy Taxes than last year. She asked if Town Manager Layton was still forecasting it to be lower in the coming year. Town Manager Layton stated he did. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau felt having the Occupancy Tax remain flat made it easier to look at. Town Manager Layton stated that the assumption that other towns won’t do something would complicate things. He thought it was a very valuable way to look at things for consistency and long rang planning.
Sam Taylor stated that Town Manager Layton had completed some superb planning. He thought that there was a cap in Town that will affect the Ad Valorem revenues. He asked if another option should be included in the forecast in case the Town becomes maxed out. Town Manager Layton agreed.
Mayor Morrison thanked Town Manager Layton for his presentation and called for a ten (10) minute recess. The time was 2:44 p.m.
Mayor Morrison reconvened the meeting.
PUBLIC RELATIONS – EVENTS ITEMS
Overview of Park Events
Public Relations Coordinator Kathy McCullough-Testa was recognized to speak. Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa went on to give a short overview of the 2008 park events to Council and the audience.
Mayor Morrison thanked Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa for her presentation.
Discussion of Community Forum; Collaboration With The Business Community; Communicating Town of Duck Values
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau gave a short overview on the idea of having a community forum once a year in Duck to Council and the audience.
Councilor Caviness thought the suggestion of having a community forum would be good. She felt it needed to happen every time something comes up or the Town makes a change of some sort. She thought it was a good idea as the Town needed to be clear on what is being done as a town. She thought the individual stakeholders should have a voice as to what they want from Council.
Ron Forlano stated that when the business alliance was formed, it was to get the community involved. He stated that there has been something in place to try to get the community involved. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau agreed and added that the Duck Civic Association had melded into the Duck Community and Business Alliance. Mr. Forlano felt it was before that. John Wander thought that since the Duck Civic Association was merged into the Duck Community and Business Alliance, a lot of input from nonresident owners had been lost. He thought regular input was most valuable. He stated that he supported having a community forum in Town. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought getting a dialog going would help. John Wander stated that it was tried in the past but it has been difficult to get a group together.
Councilor Caviness pointed out that there was a 10-12 member task force before the Town incorporated. She stated that as a business owner, she thought there was confusion about the Business Alliance merging with out of town property owners as it became diluted. She thought the opportunity should not be missed to communicate to everyone the values of the Town. She stated that there needed to be better communication with the Town and the community.
Sam Taylor agreed that things needed to be explained. He suggested having a page on the Town’s website that states why fireworks are not allowed and an explanation on the vegetation ordinance to provide everyone a way to explain things. He suggested that there should be something in the newsletter that points out that people could go to the Town’s website for the explanations. He wondered if people should be asked in the newsletter to select a date for the community forum.
Paul Keller thought there was a subdivision list the Town had that listed all of the subdivision contacts and when they held their meetings. Director Garman thought staff had contact information. Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa stated that staff communicates with the subdivision contacts, but the contacts do not contact the Town. Town Manager Layton though there was a database with the normal meeting dates for each subdivision, but didn’t think it was complete. Mr. Keller stated that people come to Town for those subdivision meetings. Councilor Caviness pointed out that there were a number of subdivisions that aren’t as well organized as others.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought the weekend of the jazz festival may be a good time to hold a community forum. Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa stated that that weekend would be very hard to do. Town Manager Layton added that the entire staff would be wrapped up in the jazz festival. Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa wondered how to obtain a great turnout for the forum. Councilor Caviness suggested doing a Town of Duck pod cast. Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa felt it was a good idea.
Councilor Smith stated there were some great ideas. He thought if Council and staff could get together with the business owners, it would help put a face to a name. He suggested a small overview on what’s going on in Town. He pointed out that there will be the usual people attending that come to every meeting and there will also be those that have no interest in a community forum. He thought the effectiveness of the website and newsletter was standard with regard to communication. He thought a lot of the ideas were great but didn’t think Council and staff should beat themselves up because there aren’t huge turnouts for meetings and such.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought people should be asked what they want. She suggested an online survey. Sam Taylor suggested using You Tube on the website to show interviews of staff. Lynne Alterman thought it would lose the importance of the Town by using You Tube. Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa thought there could be streaming video on the website.
Councilor Smith thought it would be nice to inquire about a possible date for the forum. He stated that there have been great results from surveys that the Town sends out. He thought the survey should include questions asking the public if they knew what a pod cast or a streaming video was. He thought that before funds were designated, feedback should be obtained as to whether it would be something people would be interested in.
Town Manager Layton stated he liked the idea of starting off with a survey with ways to improve communication. He stated that a forum could be great, but liked the idea of utilizing existing resources to see if it can be focused in on how to best use the communication. He thought the Town did a good job in comparison with communities of a similar size. He wondered what would be discussed at a community forum.
Councilor Wessel thought the forum was a great idea. He stated that he saw it not as an opportunity to talk about issues in Town but to find out from the stakeholders what should be talked about. He thought the forum should be one where Council listens to what people want. Lynne Alterman agreed that a list of topics should be thought up to discuss. Councilor Wessel thought everyone knew people that could be asked to come to the forum. Ms. Alterman thought asking everyone to provide a date for a forum would be too hard. She thought Council should pick a date.
Ron Forlano pointed out that Thanksgiving weekend was a popular weekend for homeowners to come to Town. He suggested tying a forum in with a dance or turkey trot and carry on an informal discussion. Councilor Smith thought that with holiday weekends, staff and other people are out of Town. Lynne Alterman added that people want to be with their families for Thanksgiving weekend. John Fricker suggested having the forum on Columbus Day. Councilor Wessel stated that it was the weekend of the jazz festival and would not work.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated she liked the idea of survey questions. She stated she would be happy to help craft a survey to send out.
Councilor Smith thought the survey may shed some light. He thought it was a great idea. Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa asked if the survey should be paper or online. Councilor Smith thought it may have to be done with different venues – online, the newsletter and a link on the Town’s website. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau thought the survey should be in the Town’s newsletter and online. Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa pointed out that having it online and in the newsletter may result in the Town getting two (2) survey responses from the same person.
Town Manager Layton suggested that he and Public Relations Coordinator McCullough-Testa come up with a concept to bring back to Council in the February or March timeframe. Councilor Caviness thought it was a good idea.
Mayor Morrison recessed the meeting until Thursday, January 17, 2008 at 12:30 p.m. He thanked everyone for attending. The time was 4:03 p.m.
RECONVENE
The Town Council for the Town of Duck reconvened at the Sanderling Inn at 12:30 p.m. on Thursday, January 17, 2008.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Neil Morrison; Mayor Pro Tempore Monica Thibodeau; Councilor Nancy Caviness; Councilor Bart Smith; and Councilor Dave Wessel.
OTHERS PRESENT: Town Manager Christopher J. Layton, Director of Community Development Andy Garman; Building Inspector W. Cory Tate; Fire Chief Donna Black; Deputy Fire Chief William Walker, Jr.; Police Chief Phillip Ferguson; First Sergeant Jeff Ackerman; Ocean Rescue Director Mirek Dabrowski; and Town Clerk Lori Kopec.
ABSENT: Town Attorney Donald I. McRee, Jr.
Mayor Morrison called the meeting to order at 12:45 p.m. He welcomed all to the second session of the Retreat and reviewed the agenda with Council and the audience.
OPEN DISCUSSION
Councilor Caviness stated that she had attended the Dare County Tourism Bureau meeting earlier in the day. She stated that it was brought to her attention that on January 23, 2008 at Kelly’s Restaurant at 2:00 p.m., an open meeting would be held to discuss the implications that are affecting over two hundred (200) establishments in Dare County with respect to the new ABC recycling program. She thought the overreaching intent of the meeting was to find a unified solution for all of the businesses that will be impacted by the ABC recycling mandate. Mayor Morrison asked if a representative from Duck was needed. Town Manager Layton stated he would attend on behalf of the Town.
Paul Keller of 125 Wiroans Court was recognized to speak. Mr. Keller stated that Duck is making progress towards all of its goals in the Land Use Plan. He stated that no one should think that any positive change was too small to meet the goals of the Land Use Plan. He thought it would be nice to have a plan in place to get rid of the utility poles as Duck was looking better with the dark sky ordinance in effect. He felt that everyone needed to be protected with regard to the accesses to and from Duck Road. He pointed out that Scarborough Faire was a good example of a safe access area. He thought the Town should strive to make the entire Village area like the area of Scarborough Faire.
PUBLIC SAFETY ITEMS
Ocean Rescue Items
Overview/Discussion of Red Flag Policy
Ocean Rescue Director Mirek Dabrowski was recognized to speak. Mr. Dabrowski gave a short presentation on the red flag policy to Council and the audience.
Councilor Caviness asked if there was pressure among the town managers to put up red flags. Town Manager Layton stated it was more from the general public. He added that there wasn’t a unanimous or consistent criterion across the towns as to when red flags should be flown.
Councilor Caviness asked Mirek Dabrowski if he had any conversation with Sandy Sanderson regarding public education on red flags. Mirek Dabrowski stated that it gets confusing. He stated that people think conditions are the same all over on the Outer Banks. He stated that the directors are making their own decisions with each town on what is best. He stated it would have to come from Council, the Mayor or the Town Manager that consistency was needed across the board with regard to flying red flags.
Mayor Morrison pointed out that Channel 20 puts out a show to educate the public on how to swim out of a rip current. He wondered if it could be altered to express the issues of the surf. He asked who puts the show together. Councilor Smith stated that Dorothy Toolan put the show together. He stated that it was good point and thought it would be good to tweak the show. He asked if red flags fly due primarily to the threat of rip currents. Mirek Dabrowski stated it has gotten that way for Duck.
Councilor Smith stated that he has liked the way things were done in the past. He stated that Mirek Dabrowski was hired to do a job, and Council and staff respect his opinion. He stated that if Mr. Dabrowski or his staff deems that the ocean is above a certain level of hazard and determines that red flags should be flown, it should be done. Mayor Morrison agreed with Councilor Smith’s comments. He didn’t think Duck should go along with what the other towns were doing. He thought it was Mr. Dabrowski’s call and felt comfortable with his performance to date.
Councilor Wessel stated that he supported Council’s comments. He added that Mr. Dabrowski had a tough job. He stated that he wouldn’t want to see red flags increasing unnecessarily. He pointed out that tourists think if the red flags aren’t flying; it is safe to go in the ocean.
John Fricker thought Mirek Dabrowski felt he was pushed to put up red flags when the other towns put theirs up. He pointed out that there was no gradation or variation as to when they should be up or down. He thought the flags should be color coded like for fire dangers. He suggested having colored flags for levels of ocean dangers. Mirek Dabrowski stated that some areas do use the different colored flag system. He agreed it was a very difficult situation to deal with. He thought if the Town went with the colored flag system, they would get into more than what they bargained for.
Mayor Morrison thanked Mirek Dabrowski for his presentation. He stated that Council appreciated the great job he and his lifeguards have done with a difficult situation.
Police Department Items
Overview of Police Operations
Police Chief Phillip Ferguson was recognized to speak. Police Chief Ferguson gave a short presentation on the Police operations to Council and the audience.
First Sergeant Jeff Ackerman was recognized to speak. First Sergeant Ackerman gave a short overview of the community watch program to Council and the audience.
Update on Police Reserve Program
First Sergeant Ackerman gave a short presentation on the Police reserve program to Council and the audience.
Mayor Morrison thanked Police Chief Ferguson and First Sergeant Ackerman for their presentations.
Mayor Morrison called for a five (5) minute break. The time was 2:37 p.m.
Mayor Morrison reconvened the meeting.
Fire Department Issues
Overview of Fire Department Operations
Fire Chief Donna Black was recognized to speak. Fire Chief Black gave a short presentation on the Fire Department operations to Council and the audience.
John Summers of 123 Sea Hawk Drive West was recognized to speak. Mr. Summers stated that he appreciated everything the Fire Department has done but had a problem with the fire equipment. He pointed out that many of the bigger cities have fire equipment that was very old. He stated he didn’t understand why new equipment was needed for the Fire Department. Councilor Caviness pointed out that the cost of a new fire truck was less than the average cost of a home in Duck. She added that the equipment cannot fail when fighting a fire. John Summers stated that training was going down the drain with the new equipment as the firefighters need to constantly be trained to use new equipment. He reiterated that the Town would be better off with older equipment. Fire Chief Black stated that she had heard Mr. Summers’ comments before. She agreed it was a hard line to justify but stated that equipment cannot break down when a fire happens. Mr. Summers stated that the Duck Fire Department was the envy of every metropolitan fire department in the country.
Councilor Smith stated that Mr. Summers’ comments were not accurate. He stated that he was on the spec committee for the new fire truck and noted that the Chicago Fire Department was picking up thirty-five (35) brand new pumper trucks when he went to pick up the Fire Department’s new truck. He stated that seventy-five percent (75%) of the trucks that come from the company that constructs fire trucks were bound for major metropolitan areas. John Summers asked when the trucks would have to be replaced again. Fire Chief Black stated that apparatus should be replaced every twenty (20) years.
Building Inspector Cory Tate was recognized to speak. Building Inspector Tate stated that the Town has two (2) separate locations with the potential for loss of life if a fire breaks out. He stated that Barrier Island and Colony by the Sea were the two (2) areas. He stated that if there was a major fire at either facility, the newer fire equipment would be needed.
Councilor Wessel agreed that the Town needed to be cognizant of where the major money is spent. He didn’t think it was fair to ask the Police or Fire Department to get 300,000 miles out of a vehicle before it’s replaced. He stated that if the Southern Shores Fire Department could get to a fire faster than the Duck Fire Department, then so be it.
Mayor Morrison thanked Fire Chief Black for her presentation.
Joint Issues
Fireworks
Police Chief Ferguson and Fire Chief Black gave a short presentation on fireworks to Council and the audience.
John Summers pointed out that the reality of the evening of the 4th of July was that fireworks will not be stopped no matter what. He stated that he has watched for years and not seen a decrease in the amount of fireworks going off in Town. He stated that he would rather see a window on the night of the 4th of July where people would be allowed to set off fireworks only on the beach. He added that any other time there should be strict enforcement. He thought Council was kidding themselves in thinking that fireworks could be stopped on the 4th of July. He thought his solution was practical and would be beneficial to the tourists.
Mayor Morrison thanked Police Chief Ferguson and Fire Chief Black for their presentation.
Trail/Beach Markers
Town Manager Layton stated that two (2) initiatives were being explored that he hoped to implement before the season starts. He stated that one was putting up signs to identify the community public beach walkovers, specifically for 911 issues. He stated that the other was to replace the mile marker signs for the Duck Trail.
Building Inspector Cory Tate was recognized to speak. Building Inspector Tate gave a short overview of the proposed trail markers to Council and the audience.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked what color the markers would be. Building Inspector Tate stated they could be in any color. Town Manager Layton stated that staff had not gotten that far as to what color to choose. Councilor Caviness felt they should be brown. John Fricker stated he was more in favor of green markers as they would be more visible. Councilor Caviness asked if the markers would be reflective. Building Inspector Tate stated they weren’t but he could order them if Council wanted reflective ones. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated she liked the brown markers. Councilors Caviness and Smith agreed. Mayor Morrison stated that the consensus was to have the markers be brown in color.
It was consensus of Council to allow Town Manager Layton to order the trail markers.
Deputy Fire Chief William Walker was recognized to speak. Deputy Fire Chief Walker went on to give a short overview of the beach markers to Council and the audience.
Mayor Morrison thought the beach markers was a great idea. Councilor Wessel stated that he liked the markers that the Town of Kitty Hawk used as they were less likely to be stolen or vandalized. Councilor Smith agreed.
Fire Chief Black asked if the signs should be reflective. Councilor Wessel thought they should be. Councilor Smith thought the markers should be done professionally instead of having staff do them. Councilor Wessel suggested contacting the Town of Kitty Hawk to see who did theirs.
Mayor Morrison asked Council if they liked the markers like the ones in the Town of Kitty Hawk. Councilor Caviness stated she did not. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated she liked the nicer looking ones. She stated she would be interested in seeing the cost differential. Fire Chief Black stated that she wasn’t sure of the quality of the reflective signs like ones used for the mailbox posts in Town. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau stated she could see the appeal of posts, but wanted something that would look nice.
Town Manager Layton suggested coming back in February with a cost estimate of having the 4x4 posts painted as well as a more refined cost estimate of a reflective sign without the Town seal for discussion purposes. Mayor Morrison thought it was an excellent idea. He thought it should be discussed at the Council’s February work session.
PLANNING ITEMS
Commercial Sign Issues
Mayor Morrison suggested Commercial Sign Issues be deferred to the February 20, 2008 mid month meeting as there was a lot of information to cover. Town Manager Layton suggested that Director Garman run through his presentation quickly with Council and the audience.
Director of Community Development Andy Garman was recognized to speak. Director Garman went on to give a very quick overview of his presentation to Council and the audience.
Mayor Morrison thanked Council and the audience for their participation in the Retreat.
Mayor Morrison moved to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried 5-0. The time was 4:56 p.m.
____________________________
/s/ Lori A. Kopec, Town Clerk
Approved: February 6, 2008
_______________________________
/s/ Neil Morrison, Mayor