TOWN OF DUCK
TOWN COUNCIL
SPECIAL JOINT MEETING WITH THE PLANNING BOARD
May 24, 2006
The Town Council for the Town of Duck convened a Special Joint Meeting with the Planning Board at the Duck Municipal Offices at 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday, May 24, 2006.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Neil Morrison; Mayor Pro Tempore Monica Thibodeau; Councilor Denver Lindley, Jr.; Councilor Nancy Caviness; and Councilor Bart Smith.
COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Ron Forlano; Vice Chair Jon Britt; Member John Jenkins; and Member Joe Blakaitis.
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS ABSENT: Member Anne Darnall.
OTHERS PRESENT: Town Manager and Town Clerk Christopher J. Layton, Planning Director Suzanne Cotellessa; Town Attorney Donald I. McRee, Jr.; and Administrative Assistant Sandy Cady.
Mayor Morrison called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. He asked Vice-Chairman Britt to lead the Pledge of Allegiance. Mayor Morrison led the moment of silence.
Chairman Forlano welcomed Joe Blakaitis as the newest member of the Planning Board. He stated he had worked with Member Blakaitis on the Town’s Land Use Plan. He felt that Member Blakaitis will be a welcome addition to the Planning Board.
Special Presentation to 2006 Community Appearance Award Winners by Mayor Morrison and Community Improvement Committee Chairwoman, Lisa Mann
Mayor Morrison stated that there would be a special presentation to the 2006 Community Appearance Aware winners. He stated that Community Improvement Committee Chairwoman Lisa Mann was to present the awards to the winners.
Lisa Mann was recognized to speak. Ms. Mann stated that the entire Committee was present at the meeting. She stated that the Committee has been pleased to put together this program for the Town. She went on to present the following awards with Mayor Morrison’s assistance:
First Place Best Residential Property – Mary Hobbs
Best Homeowners Association – Caffey’s Inlet
Honorable Mention for Best Homeowners Association – Ship’s Watch
Honorable Mention Best Commercial Business – The Waterfront Shops
Honorable Mention Best Commercial Business – Soundfeet Shoes & Ocean Atlantic Rentals Shopping Center
First Place Best Commercial Business – Scarborough Lane Shops
Mayor Morrison called for a five (5) minute recess. The time was 6:40 p.m.
Chairman Forlano reconvened the meeting.
NEW BUSINESS
A. Review and comment on Application of Robert and Tanya Hovey for new construction as follows:
CUP 06-002 Application of Robert & Tanya Hovey to approve a new conditional use permit under the Village Commercial Development Option for construction of a new building with approximately 1,080 square feet of retail space and a 2nd floor office consisting of approximately 200 square feet at 1207 Duck Road.
Chairman Forlano stated that the meeting was a joint one with nothing to be decided. It would be a presentation with the Hovey’s reviewing with Council and the Planning Board what they are proposing to do. He stated that Council and the Planning Board may make some recommendations on changes that may need to be done. He directed Planning Director Suzanne Cotellessa to do a staff introduction.
Planning Director Cotellessa stated that Duck Village Outfitters has been in business as a surf shop business in Duck for approximately eight (8) years with the Hovey’s looking to put up a new building on the property. She went on to give a short Power Point presentation to Council, the Planning Board and the audience.
Mayor Morrison directed Bob Hovey to make a presentation.
Bob Hovey of Duck Village Outfitters thanked Planning Director Cotellessa for all of her help with the process. He gave a quick background on his business in Duck to Council, the Planning Board and the audience touching on the parking, the loading area, stormwater retention, landscaping and vegetation, fencing and the sidewalk. Mr. Hovey stated he would like to keep the fence that is in the rear of the property to store rental bicycles. He stated that having the sidewalk in front of the property is a nice suggestion, but felt it would be hard to accommodate due to the existing sycamore tree. He suggested moving the building back four (4) feet to accommodate the sidewalk; however, it would cause a five (5) foot rear setback encroachment. He stated that he would like to get the project going on November 1, 2006. Mr. Hovey stated that they would be willing to donate the original structure to the Town with some provisions. He pointed out at the last Planning Board meeting he was misquoted as stating that bicycles cannot be stored on the drainfield. He stated he has been allowed by the Health Department to store his bicycles on the drainfield.
Mayor Morrison asked Council and the Planning Board for their comments.
Member Joe Blakaitis asked what presently happens to the overflow parking. Bob Hovey stated that the employees are parked in the back and many of the customers park at adjacent properties. He stated that he has been in discussions with RBC Centura Bank to share parking.
Member John Jenkins stated that he is concerned with the shared parking with RBC Centura Bank. He asked what “subject to the terms of the lease” mean. Bob Hovey stated that with the Crown property, they have chosen not to go ahead with the share parking there, but may wish to use it further down the road as an employee parking spot. He stated it was very difficult to get RBC Centura Bank and the Crown property to agree to the shared parking as they wanted something in return. Member Jenkins stated that he appreciates that Mr. Hovey has done his homework.
Member Blakaitis pointed out that Mr. Hovey has an agreement with RBC Centura. Bob Hovey stated that they have an agreement with RBC Centura for a shared dumpster.
Chairman Forlano asked if there are any problems with the two (2) adjacent properties pertaining to stormwater runoff. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that RBC Centura has a stormwater pond at the north edge of the property near the road, which handles all stormwater runoff in that area. She stated that with respect to development on the Hovey’s property, there is no requirement for any stormwater, but they have been asked to deal with it, however, they have not had a stormwater issue. Chairman Forlano stated that his point was that the site is so small and is all concrete. He wondered if it would exacerbate a problem that is there now or was there even a problem. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that there has not been a problem. Town Manager Layton pointed out where the runoff accumulates near the property to Council, the Planning Board and the audience.
Councilor Caviness asked if the property is presently all gravel. Bob Hovey stated there is only concrete where the handicap parking spot is.
Councilor Smith asked if there was any documentation from the Health Department that grants permission to store items on the septic drainfields. Bob Hovey stated that it was not put in writing. He stated that he never asked for permission. He pointed out that he has a permit to build a fence, which is over the drainfield. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that the Health Department will need to stamp the new site plan that spells out the storage before it will be approved. Stephanie Gadd from Coastal Engineering stated that typically if no one is parking on the septic, the Health Department does not have a problem.
Councilor Lindley asked if any vegetation would be added. Bob Hovey thought that the side facing Burger King would be an excellent area for landscaping as well as having a swale to retain water. He stated that where their sign is currently, they have always had a flower garden in front of it. He stated he wouldn’t have a problem with planting a tree or two but pointed out that the south property line has a lot of tall trees which are not on their property. Councilor Caviness asked if he was proposing to take down the Sycamore tree. Mr. Hovey stated he wasn’t.
Councilor Smith asked if the trees on the south line are not on their property. Mr. Hovey stated that the trunks on the south side of the RBC Centura property are not on their property but thirty to forty percent (30% - 40%) of the branches are.
Councilor Caviness asked about moving the building back by five (5) feet. Bob Hovey stated that he had spoken to Stephanie Gadd and that it would be easy to move it back two (2) feet without changing the design. He thought that five (5) feet would be in violation of the Health Department code.
Member Blakaitis asked what would be accomplished by having a sidewalk in front of the building. Bob Hovey stated that only one (1) business has a sidewalk where one can walk down the sidewalk to get to the building. He stated that mostly every other business is not like that. Member Blakaitis stated that the sidewalk would be aesthetically pleasing, but didn’t know if it would be necessary. Mr. Hovey pointed out that the Town’s engineer had a concern that the sidewalk may be too close to the parking spot. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that Mr. Hovey was referencing the handicap parking space.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau pointed out that there is a lot of activity around the building and felt the sidewalk may encourage more walking space. Bob Hovey stated that where the proposed customer bicycle rack is, there could be a sidewalk there with the bicycle rack.
Member Blakaitis asked if there could be a boardwalk over the swale. Bob Hovey stated that it is important for his business to be able to display their rental equipment from the road. Member Blakaitis asked if it would be wide enough for the boardwalk and a display area. Mr. Hovey stated that he may be able to gain a couple of feet from the property line.
Councilor Smith asked if the twenty (20) foot concrete drive aisle was standard width or if it could be manipulated. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that the Town has a standard of twenty-four (24) feet, but it has been lowered to twenty (20) feet for other projects. She stated that it seemed to be more important to have a car turnaround and adequate pedestrian access than it would be to maintain the twenty (20) feet. She felt they could probably lose some of the width and the drive aisle and parking would still work.
Chairman Forlano asked what elevation the seven (7) feet of swale was from. Stephanie Gadd stated that it was just an elevation. Chairman Forlano asked if it was known where the water table was for infiltration. Ms. Gadd believed the water table is probably three (3) feet below the swale based on the site evaluation by the Health Department. Olin Finch was recognized to speak. Mr. Finch stated that the Health Department digs to the first sign of wetness and not to water.
Councilor Smith asked for clarification on the deck over the swale. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that an engineer designed it for a dual purpose area to provide for some stormwater infiltration and to provide a way to include bicycle racks there.
Chairman Forlano asked if the stormwater retention areas are designed to handle stormwater runoff from the building and from the concrete on the property. Stephanie Gadd stated that he was correct. Chairman Forlano asked if the surface was permeable instead of concrete, would there be a problem with stormwater runoff. Ms. Gadd stated that the stormwater swale would not be needed under the deck. She stated that the swale under the deck is for the concrete area and the swale adjacent to the building is for the building. She stated that the Town recommended a concrete drive aisle so she added it in. Planning Director Cotellessa stated it was a recommendation that she made. Chairman Forlano clarified that the recommendation was a concrete drive aisle. Planning Director Cotellessa stated he was correct. Bob Hovey stated that the loading area is proposed as concrete and felt it would be important to keep it as concrete for the bicycles.
Vice Chair Britt asked why the drive aisle was recommended as concrete. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that it was to make sure there wasn’t a lot of gravel spilling onto Duck Road, but mainly it was in case there couldn’t be an agreement for a trash dumpster along the site. Vice Chair Britt stated that he liked the idea of a pedestrian walkway on the site.
Member Blakaitis asked what type of surface the parking area is. Councilor Smith stated it was gravel. Chairman Forlano stated that a concrete apron could be put in. Member Blakaitis asked what was proposed for the parking lot. Bob Hovey stated that gravel is proposed.
Member Blakaitis asked what type of surface the parking area is. Councilor Smith stated it was gravel. Chairman Forlano stated that a concrete apron could be put in. Member Blakaitis asked what was proposed for the parking lot. Bob Hovey stated that gravel is proposed. Planning Director Cotellessa pointed out that geo-webbing would be a good surface material to use in the parking lot to stabilize the gravel. She stated that she would still recommend concrete from the bike trail into the site. Councilor Smith stated that if they will be renting bicycles, it is impossible to ride a bike on pea gravel. He stated that if pedestrian safety is an issue by turning it into gravel, there will be more injuries from people trying to ride on the grave. He stated that he did not mind the concrete, but felt that pavers would be a better choice.
Chairman Forlano pointed out that there is no such thing as a dust free pea gravel surface, which was referenced in the site plan. Councilor Smith stated that if there was a pedestrian access created, he thought people would still walk up the concrete drive aisle. He felt that putting in the access would be a waste. Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau pointed out that even now people are cutting through and not taking the walkway. She felt there would be an advantage to having the access in the front.
Olin Finch stated that the front door will be recessed. He thought it would be nice to allow the rear setback to be reduced slightly as it will not create any detriment to anyone. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that under the Village Commercial Development Option, the rear setback can be reduced but that the septic may constrain it. Councilor Caviness felt that with the nature of business, it would help. Tanya Hovey stated it would be safer as well. Councilor Caviness stated that a future opportunity could be a walkway because of the heavily traveled area. Ms. Hovey stated that they have tried unsuccessfully.
Councilor Smith asked why the handicap parking spot was positioned away from the building. Stephanie Gadd stated it was allowed for the employee parking so that employees would not back out into the handicap spot. Planning Director Cotellessa stated it was a dual purpose as they are using the striped area for the handicap spot as a turnaround. Tanya Hovey stated they have limited space and use dual purposes on a regular basis. Councilor Smith asked if most handicapped people exit their vans on the left side. Stephanie Gadd stated they could back in. Councilor Smith asked what would be done if the handicapped person had a wheelchair. Bob Hovey stated that the five or six (5 or 6) that have shopped there have usually driven in and got out. He stated that an actual handicap van has never parked in his lot. He stated that the handicap spot is only thirteen (13) feet wide and didn’t think a van could park there. Vice Chair Britt pointed out that handicap vans have to unload on the left side. Olin Finch pointed out that the vans can also back into the spot.
Councilor Caviness stated that there have been questions about materials and colors on the exterior. Bob Hovey stated that he has been very flexible and plans to use taupe, off-white, gray or beige that would be compatible with the surroundings. He stated that they are not planning on doing any loud or unusual colors.
Olin Finch stated that he envisioned the trim in a bright white color. He stated they may use wood that is painted white or use a product that looks like wood but is vinyl. He stated that the shingles would be white or red cedar. Member Blakaitis asked if they were going to stick with natural wood products. Bob Hovey stated that they haven’t come to a firm conclusion on it but had discussed using natural wood. Member Blakaitis asked if there would be vinyl. Mr. Hovey stated it would be cedar shakes. He stated he would like to use cedar on the roof, but would check with an analysis. Mr. Finch stated that the roof may be cedar shakes. Member Blakaitis encouraged the Hoveys to use something natural. He stated that he is very impressed with the design.
Member Blakaitis asked about having a metal roof. Olin Finch stated it could be possible, but didn’t see it as being traditional looking. Tanya Hovey stated she would prefer not to use metal for the roof. She stated that she is trying to have a Coast Guard look to the building.
Councilor Smith asked what type of trash is accumulated and asked if they have a mobile dumpster. Bob Hovey stated that ninety percent (90%) of their trash are cardboard boxes. Tanya Hovey stated that she goes to the recycling center at least once every other week. Olin Finch explained that a mobile dumpster is basically a dumpster on wheels and would not have a restriction on the size of the dumpster. Councilor Smith asked if the whole dumpster is hauled away when filled. Mr. Finch stated he was correct. Ms. Hovey stated she has been doing that for the past eleven (11) years.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked how the Hoveys get their deliveries. Bob Hovey stated that Federal Express and UPS pull into the Crown property or pull into the bicycle trail. He stated that in the spring they have eighteen (18) wheelers for shipments of bicycles and kayaks. He stated that approximately a dozen times a year there is an issue with the bike path being blocked for a period of time. He stated that he did not know of any other alternatives. Councilor Caviness stated that delivery trucks was discussed at length at a prior meeting and thought that UPS and Federal Express go where they need to go to make the deliveries. She stated that Council’s concern is when the delivery drivers are pulling onto or parking on the bike path as it becomes a hazard to bicyclists and pedestrians. Tanya Hovey stated that they are working with RBC Centura Bank. Mr. Hovey stated that even with the fifty (50) foot wide lot, he still does not see a practical solution to the issue other than working with the bank.
Councilor Smith asked why they have a thousand (1000) gallon septic tank when they are required to have four hundred sixty (460). Stephanie Gadd stated it was the minimum standard size. Councilor Smith asked if there are only thousand (1000) gallon septic tanks. Ms. Gadd stated that there aren’t any State approved smaller ones. Tanya Hovey stated that their restroom is open to the public.
Councilor Caviness asked if when the Hoveys go to the second meeting before the Planning Board if they would have lighting and signage. Bob Hovey stated that whatever they are required to do, they will have done. Olin Finch felt that there would be minimal lighting involved. Councilor Caviness encouraged them to use as much dark sky compliance lighting as possible. Tanya Hovey stated that the only lighting they have presently is on their sign, the front and side porch light as well as some flood lights around the building.
Councilor Smith asked if there are any requirements to keep the drive aisle/loading area clear for the purpose of parking only. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that an area that is blocked or stacked can be approved if it is less than standard. Bob Hovey stated they would stack the employee parking in the back if necessary in the summer months. Planning Director Cotellessa expected that the lot in the back would be marked as “Employee Parking Only”. Councilor Smith stated that he was concerned about the number 8 parking spot. He stated he was concerned it would turn into a permanent skateboard ramp. Bob Hovey asked if Council and Planning Board did not want any skateboarding facilities. Councilor Smith stated that if it is presented for a specific purpose and used for an alternate purpose, it may be an issue. Councilor Caviness asked if there were plans to build some sort of skateboard structure in those spots. Mr. Hovey stated he would like to have some moveable ramps. Olin Finch pointed out that the ramps are not advertised to the public.
Chairman Forlano asked if they will be putting in a dumpster on the RBC Centura lot. Bob Hovey stated that that was the plan. Chairman Forlano asked if they would then not need the 10x10 screened dumpster pad. Mr. Hovey stated that they should not need it. Chairman Forlano asked if the skateboard ramp could be located back in that area. Mr. Hovey stated that if Council and Planning Board are ok with it, it could be located there. Chairman Forlano stated that Councilor Smith was concerned about the number 8 parking spot and didn’t want a lot of clutter in the loading zone. Councilor Smith pointed out that the size of the parking spaces is being decreased and wanted to be sure that the parking spot would not be used for skate ramps and permanent structures that were never intended to be there. Vice Chair Britt felt the dumpster pad should be left as is in case the deal with RBC ever falls through. Olin Finch pointed out that the skate ramps are portable.
Councilor Caviness stated that she understood Councilor Smith’s concerns and that the integrity of the intent of parking spot 8 needs to be maintained. Councilor Smith stated there have been discussions of businesses going outside of their footprint and using that area to run a business that is larger than what the lot will allow. He stated he would rather not see the loading area and parking spot 8 be used for storage or semi-permanent skate ramps.
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau asked if the cement could all the way back to the property line. Planning Director Cotellessa stated that it is for Council and the Planning Board to determine within the context of this plan. Member Blakaitis stated he liked the idea. Vice Chair Britt agreed. Councilor Caviness felt it would be a reasonable use.
Planning Director Cotellessa summarized a few of staff’s recommendations, some of which were technical aspects. She indicated that some of the recommendations where technical requirements but they also asked for a landscape plan, a lighting plan, color scheme and details for the building and signage to name a few.
Vice-Chair Britt stated that the only thing struck from the recommendations was the revision to the parking area to accommodate the pedestrian accessway. Ms. Cotellessa concurred, and noted that it was suggested this evening that they expand the dumpster area to the rear setback. It was also noted by Mr. Finch that they had discussed reducing the setback at the one corner of the building. Vice-Chair Britt indicated that was in conjunction with the building being setback a few feet further to accommodate a small front sidewalk in the front of the building.
Ms. Cotellessa indicated she would provide the applicants with a list of these items for them to work on their revisions for the Planning Board meeting.
Mr. Finch wanted to clarify, and Ms. Gadd confirmed that they would only be able to move the building back 1.8 feet, otherwise they would encounter problems with the health department. This would still provide for approximately a three (3) foot walkway.
Councilor Smith noted the engineer recommended concrete bollards at the southwest corner of the building to protect the integrity of the structure. Mr. Finch and Ms. Gadd both indicated they could accommodate this request.
Vice-Chair Britt commended the applicants for embracing this process. This is the way the process is/was meant to work.
Member Blakaitis echoed Vice-Chair Britt’s comments and indicated he was impressed with the design.
Chairman Forlano was fine with everything and had no further comments.
Councilor Lindley indicated “good job”.
Councilor Caviness stated she thought it was great.
Mayor Morrison also commended the applicants. He indicated he looked forward to seeing final plan and noted that they would see the Planning Board on June 14, 2006.
It was noted that a public hearing would be held on July 5, 2006.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Pro Tempore Thibodeau made a motion to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried 9-0.
The time was 8:17 p.m.
Approved: ______________________________________________
/s/ Ron Forlano, Chairman