TOWN OF DUCK
TOWN COUNCIL
REGULAR MID-MONTH MEETING
The Town Council for the Town of Duck convened at the Duck Municipal Offices at 1:00 p.m. on Wednesday, February 15, 2005.
COUNCIL MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Gene Schwarz; Mayor Pro Tempore Allan Beres; Councilor Nancy Caviness; Councilor Monica Thibodeau; and Councilor Neil Morrison.
COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
OTHERS PRESENT: Town Manager and Town Clerk Christopher Layton; Town Attorney Donald I. McRee, Jr.; Planning Director Suzanne Cotellessa; Members of the Municipal Property Master Plan Study Committee – Chairman Paul Keller, Charlie Pratt, Avery Harrison, Jennifer Gilbreath, Chris Dewitt and Andra Parker of VHB, Inc. and Deputy Town Clerk Lori Kopec.
The meeting was called to order by Mayor Schwarz at 1:00 p.m. He thanked the members of the Municipal Property Committee for attending and for their efforts.
Mayor Schwarz asked the Committee members to each give a short summary of their work.
Chairman Paul Keller was recognized to speak. He gave an overview of the Committee’s highlights of the past year to Council and the audience.
Mayor Schwarz stated he wanted Council to discuss the Master Plan with the Committee.
Councilor Thibodeau asked if the objective of the meeting was to make a decision on one of the two alternatives. Mayor Schwarz stated the objective would be to approve the Plan subject to any changes that Council wishes to make. Councilor Thibodeau asked if the timeframe in the Plan would be included. Mayor Schwarz stated it would all be part of the discussion.
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres asked if the drainage improvements would occupy surface space that will not be available for other purposes. Chris Dewitt of VHB, Inc. was recognized to speak. Mr. Dewitt stated that it would depend on what exactly is done at that location. Mayor Pro Tempore Beres asked if part of the design plan included doing something with the drainage. Chris Dewitt stated it would. Chairman Keller stated that the Committee felt that drainage improvements were a high priority.
Councilor Morrison asked for an explanation as to why the Rodgers house should be reconstructed when it does not have any historical significance. Chairman Keller directed each Committee member to respond.
Bob Fitchett stated that even though the house does not have any historical significance, it is one of the oldest houses in Duck. He stated that to some people, there is historical significance. He stated there is nothing on the house to preserve, but people do want something left there. He stated that the Committee agreed it would be an ideal spot for public restrooms and the Rodgers House seemed like an appropriate place to have them. He stated that by reconstructing the house behind the cemetery would preserve the cemetery itself.
Jennifer Gilbreath stated that the Rodgers house may not have historical significance by State archival definition but it is the best the Town has.
Avery Harrison stated she initially felt the house needed to come down but over time has become attached to the property.
Charlie Pratt agreed with the other member’s points. He stated that the Committee struggled with the decision on the house. He stated the Committee had a few alternatives for the house, tearing the house down completely, tearing it down and saving some of the materials to make an educational display, repairing the house or replicating the house.
Chairman Keller stated that the Committee spent quite some time on the issue and there were times when the Committee wanted to tear the house down completely, but once the restroom idea came up, it seemed like a logical place to house them, along with possibly a library or visitor center.
Chris Dewitt stated that the costs to replicate the house are ballpark figures right now. The figures were based on the square footage of the building. Chairman Keller stated that if the house was rebuilt, it will not really look like the original house. He stated it wasn’t an easy decision for the Committee to make.
Councilor Morrison stated he was confused as to why the public wants a replica of the Rodgers house but not a Town Hall on the property, when there was such a response for green space. He stated that a Town Hall could contain restrooms or a library. Chairman Keller stated that a Town Hall would bring a lot of “baggage”. He stated the Rodgers house would be simple as it would only house restrooms. He stated that the Committee was abiding by what the public asked for.
Councilor Caviness asked what the square footage was on the Rodgers house. Chris Dewitt stated it was roughly 1,200 square feet. Councilor Caviness stated there was a lot of comments and requests for there to be interpretative, historical and environmental information as well as a need for restrooms. She asked if all of these things are put in the replica, would the house still be the same size. Mr. Dewitt stated it would be the same size.
Councilor Thibodeau asked how many restrooms would be appropriate for the size of the house. Chairman Keller stated that for major events, portable restrooms would need to be brought in. He stated the Committee did not discuss how many restrooms would be in the house. Councilor Thibodeau asked how many restrooms would fit in a 1,200 square foot house. Chris Dewitt stated there would be one men’s room and one ladies room.
Councilor Morrison stated he could envision a constant stream of criticism regarding the cleanliness of the restrooms. Chairman Keller stated that the Committee did not discuss the issue.
Mayor Schwarz stated that the estimated cost of the building will be $180,000, which is a conservative estimate. He stated there is an additional cost to redesign the house of approximately $30,000. He stated that if the Town is willing to commit over $200,000 to basically build a new house, it does not relate to the Rodgers house. He stated the Town would just be building a new house. He stated that it doesn’t have anything to do with the Rodgers house and he has a problem with it. He stated the house would have to change due to the Americans with Disabilities Act. He stated that if the Town is going to build something, it should be something that makes sense. He felt that replicating the house did not seem like a wise expenditure of funds. He stated that if Council decides to do something where the house is, to do something practical.
Councilor Caviness stated that she didn’t think it would be impractical to replicate the Rodgers house. She stated that restrooms will be necessary on the property, and an interpretative center was asked for by the public. She didn’t feel that the building would be impractical. She asked how much of a replication will be done when the house is finally built with all the ADA guidelines and if the price was going up because the Town is trying to replicate something that is not easy to replicate. Chairman Keller stated that the Council could do a simple study to see what would be required for the restrooms.
Jennifer Gilbreath stated she is hung up on sentiment with the Rodgers house. She thought that there is public interest in history and the house is all that Duck has. Mayor Schwarz agreed, but felt that that what will be replicated will not be what is presently there. Ms. Gilbreath stated that she understands, but it’s all that Duck has.
Avery Harrison suggested that certain things from the house be preserved. Chairman Keller stated that portions of the framing and the brick from the chimney could be saved.
Bob Fitchett stated that these items are not the Committee’s personal opinions but taken from what the citizens stated they wanted.
Charlie Pratt pointed out that prior to the winged horses; the Rodgers house was the most photographed object in Town. He stated that the Committee did not independently decide what was to be put on the property, but used the responses from the questionnaires to make their decisions. He stated that the decision as to what should go on the property was done before any cost estimates were done.
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres stated he was concerned about the direction of the plan for the Rodgers house. He asked if the Town is unnecessarily constraining itself in planning for the use of the park land. He asked what functions should the house be used for and will the size be large enough for the uses. He stated he did not want the house replicated if it was to be determined at a later date that there wasn’t enough room for one of the uses.
Councilor Thibodeau stated she liked the idea of having a building there. She stated she liked having the restrooms in an interior space that would allow for historic displays. She stated she would be in favor of replicating the Rodgers house.
Councilor Caviness agreed with Councilor Thibodeau’s comments. She asked if the boardwalk would be constructed high enough to avoid flooding during heavy rains. Chris Dewitt stated it would be elevated. He stated that the areas over the marsh will have to be elevated.
Councilor Thibodeau asked if the parking in the Preferred Alternative shows the parking as a drive aisle by the gazebo and green. She asked what the rationale was to not allowing cars to park in the drive aisle as opposed to the parking layout on the Preferred Alternative with Town Hall. Chris Dewitt stated that there will be more parking on the right side of the property under the Preferred Alternative. Therefore, there is not a need for additional parking. He stated the idea for the drive aisle was for people to be able to drop off equipment for the amphitheater, drop off people going to the picnic area and drop children off.
Councilor Caviness asked if the parking area in the Preferred Alternative is already flat and would not need much more disturbance. Chris Dewitt stated that additional clearing will be necessary, but most of the area is already cleared.
Councilor Thibodeau stated that the phasing chart showed three separate parking lot items. She asked why it was drawn up that way. Chris Dewitt stated that it was done to spread the cost out and as the demand for improvements grows, the parking would have to catch up.
Councilor Morrison asked if the left entrance could be converted to additional parking in the future. Chris Dewitt stated it could be done.
Mayor Schwarz asked what the distance of the kayak launch path would be from the parking lot. Chris Dewitt stated it is approximately two hundred feet.
Councilor Caviness asked if a fire hydrant would have to be put on the property. Town Manager Layton stated he did not anticipate the need for an extra fire hydrant.
Councilor Morrison stated he would like to see pervious materials used wherever possible. He asked if there would not be any lighting after dark on the paths. Chris Dewitt stated that the general intent of the park would be a dawn to dusk operation. He stated he had included in the design scope of the property, some low level lighting in anticipation of night events at the amphitheater.
Councilor Caviness stated that she liked where the playground area will be located.
Councilor Thibodeau asked how the plan would be implemented after it is approved. Town Manager Layton stated that after Council approves the plan, the next step would be to have the property engineered for different elements. After that, the implementation process would start based on funding that Council has obligated.
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres asked if as the engineering goes forward, it would be anticipated that a decision on size would have to be made. Chris Dewitt stated it would happen.
Councilor Caviness asked if the property would be photographed from this point forward. Town Manager Layton stated that it would be a good idea.
Mayor Schwarz stated he is still concerned with the replication of the Rodgers house. He hoped that an accommodation could be made. Chris Dewitt stated that once all of the questions as to what is to be done with the house are answered, it could come back to Council for their approval. Mayor Schwarz stated that the items that are proposed to go into the Rodgers house could also be put in a Town Hall. He stated that Council needs to think about this.
Town Manager Layton stated that one of the key factors regarding the Rodgers house that needs to be decided quickly is getting the information from the house before it is disassembled. He stated the house needs to be disassembled or have restricted access to it.
Mayor Schwarz asked if there is any way to restore the building. Chris Dewitt stated that the house is beyond restoration. He stated it could be replicated as best as possible under the current building code. Town Manager Layton stated that because it’s not a historic structure, it’s not exempt from the ADA rules. Mayor Schwarz asked if the plan is approved as it is written, will the Town go forward with the engineering to reconstruct the house. Town Manager Layton stated it would be part of the engineering of the site.
Town Manager Layton stated that the immediate question that Council needs to ask is if the restrooms will fit in the Rodgers house, and if not, what should be put in the house. He stated that the house is dangerous now, but once people are allowed on the property, it will become more of a liability to the Town.
Councilor Morrison stated he appreciates the sentiment in the historical significance of the house, but was concerned about the cost to replicate the house. He stated the Town would not end up with the Rodgers house, but with another house with restrooms. He wondered how a library could be in the house if there is no one there to supervise it.
Mayor Schwarz pointed out that if Council goes forward with replicating the Rodgers house, it’s going to take money to build and maintain. He stated that the entire park is an expense to the Town and could mean hiring more employees.
Chairman Keller suggested replicating the façade of the Rodgers house and then building the rest of the building behind it. He also suggested that Council vote on whether or not to keep the elements of the house that the Committee had identified.
Councilor Morrison suggested that the house be photographed and that bricks, boards, etc. be saved for a display. He felt that demolition of the house should begin as soon as possible.
Mayor Schwarz stated that Council has to decide before the house is removed that the engineering be completed. He asked if Council wanted to spend the additional money for the engineering to have the house replicated.
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres stated he liked the idea of the façade of the Rodgers house. Town Manager Layton stated that some of the original pieces of the house could be used in the replication of the façade.
Mayor Schwarz pointed out that once the house is removed, it will be gone from the property for over a year. He wondered how important it will be to people. Chairman Keller suggested that Council give themselves as many options as possible for the property.
Councilor Morrison asked if Council approves a plan that includes the demolition of the Rodgers house, could the new committee study the alternatives for the house. Councilor Thibodeau stated that a decision needs to be made before the house is demolished. She stated she liked the idea of replicating the façade of the house.
Councilor Caviness asked if photographs and measurements of the house would be enough to replicate the façade. Chris Dewitt stated it would be.
It was consensus of Council to replicate the façade of the Rodgers house. Councilor Thibodeau suggested erecting a sign in front of the house to let the public know what is happening with the house.
Councilor Thibodeau moved to accept the Preferred Alternative submitted by the Municipal Property Committee as presented with the change to the Rodgers house.
Mayor Schwarz asked Councilor Thibodeau if her motion did not include the Preferred Alternative with Town Hall in the Master Plan. Councilor Thibodeau stated he was correct. Mayor Schwarz asked Councilor Thibodeau if she was not making a motion to approve the Plan as submitted. Councilor Thibodeau thought the preferred alternative was without the Town Hall. Mayor Schwarz stated that two preferred alternatives were presented to Council. Councilor Thibodeau stated she had moved to approve the Plan without the Town Hall.
Councilor Morrison thanked the Committee for their outstanding work on the Plan. He stated he will support the motion.
Councilor Caviness agreed with Councilor Morrison.
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres stated that the Committee had done a great job.
Mayor Schwarz stated he was not prepared to support the Preferred Alternative. He felt that Council should support both alternatives as the Town is in the early stages. He felt that if both alternatives are approved, it keeps the option open to build a Town Hall on the property, which was the original intent of Council. He stated that the Town is not providing any funds for a Town Hall, but allowing the alternative to remain open. He felt the logical place for a Town Hall would be on the municipal property. He felt that if the alternative with the Town Hall is not approved, it will mean that none of the engineering will include a Town Hall at any time. He felt that Council was being short-sighted.
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres agreed with Mayor Schwarz and felt that Council would be remiss in their responsibilities to close the door forever on the idea of having a municipal building on the property. He stated that whatever the vote is, he hopes it does not foreclose the issue of constructing a Town Hall on the municipal property in the future.
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres moved to amend the original motion to include the Preferred Alternative with Town Hall.
Councilor Thibodeau stated she did not agree with Mayor Schwarz’s comments. She stated that she did not interpret closing the door forever to constructing a Town Hall in the Master Plan.
Town Manager Layton stated that the plan would include preliminary engineering for drainfields and water lines for a Town Hall that would need to be put in before any other improvements would be put in.
Councilor Thibodeau stated she was staying with her original motion.
Councilor Morrison stated he has supported having a Town Hall from the beginning. He stated he is aware of the public’s opposition to it and felt that some of the opposition is misinformed. He stated that a Town Hall would not take up much space on the property, nor destroy the appearance of the property as park land. However, he stated that if the Plan is approved without the option of a Town Hall, he could not see why, in future years, if it’s decided to construct a Town Hall, that one could not be constructed. He stated that he could not see how it would close the door to a Town Hall if the Plan is approved without the Town Hall option.
Councilor Caviness stated that she felt that Council would only pick one alternative when the Plan was presented to them. She stated that if the Preferred Alternative with Town Hall is chosen, it will keep the argument open instead of making a final decision. She agreed that it does not close any doors to constructing a Town Hall.
Motion defeated 2-3 with Councilor Morrison, Councilor Thibodeau and Councilor Caviness dissenting.
Original motion approved 4-1 with Mayor Schwarz dissenting.
OTHER ISSUES RELATED TO THE MUNICIPAL PROPERTY MASTER PLAN
Discussion of Contract with VHB, Inc. for Engineering Services
Town Manager Layton stated he was not looking for a decision but that since VHB has led the Town thus far, the original plan did not include engineering up front. He stated that after much discussion with Chris Dewitt and others, it would make sense to engineer the site up front to get a better handle on it. He stated the cost would be the same, it would just mean that the cost would be put into the FY2005 and FY2006 year’s budget as opposed to spreading it out over a five year period. Town Manager Layton stated he would bring back a contract for engineering services with VHB, Inc. for Council’s approval at the March 2, 2005 meeting.
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres asked if the work would take place during the FY2005 calendar year. Town Manager Layton stated he was correct. Mayor Pro Tempore Beres asked if most of the work would be accomplished in the July timeframe. Town Manager Layton stated it will depend on the point that it is approved. He anticipated the bulk of the work to take six to eight months. Mayor Pro Tempore Beres asked if he would split the cost between this fiscal year and next fiscal year. Town Manager Layton stated he would do that.
It was consensus of Council to have Town Manager Layton bring back a contract at the March 2, 2005 meeting.
Discussion of Rezoning of Property from Village Commercial to Conservation and Public Recreation
Town Manager Layton stated he wanted Council’s approval to go forward. He stated that currently, the property is zoned Village Commercial. He stated he would like to have it zoned to the C-PR district and get rid of the lot lines and re-record the plat as one parcel instead of three.
It was consensus of Council to have Town Manager Layton move forward.
ADJOURNMENT
Mayor Pro Tempore Beres moved to adjourn the meeting.
Motion carried 5-0. The time was 2:35 p.m.
__________________________
/s/ Town Clerk
Approved: ______________________
_______________________________
/s/ Gene Schwarz, Mayor